Ooooh...pre-determination. Brings back memories of Philosophy class. I don't know if I do believe in that. If our choices, whether good or bad, is pre-determined then you ultimately must believe in God or a god. As it is the work a higher being. But then you gotta think about it, why would a loving God/god make his/her/their own creation do such evil things. Now, I'm not saying everyone on Earth does evil, I'm just saying there are people who do. Also in pre-determination, you have to factor in predictability. If you're as predictable as a straight line, well...I guess that speaks for itself.

On the other hand, you have the possibility of you making your own decisions, and no one else does it for not even a divine being. I find this more of an existentialist view, where the world is pretty much what you make of it and God has nothing to do with you or anything else in life. In fact, a person with this view may be an athiest (which is actually quite contradictory since, an athiest claims that there is no god, but yet can claim that there isn't - it's contradictory to claim what doesn't exist in reality when you can use it in a sentence to say it's non-existent, because by doing this you half prove that the being does in fact exist in way). Sorry if I'm rambling guys or if I'm not making sense even. Anyways, I'm stuck between the two theories, but i'm leaning more towards a pre-determined life. Thanks Garten for asking that, it's been a while since I've talked about philosophy and it's good to every now and then.

Oh yeah, I actually meant to give a comment on xxxHOLiC lol. I haven't seen the episode yet, but from what I gather so far, it is looking good. Can't wait to watch it.

Don't worry about the rambling. I think part of what makes xxxHOLiC interesting is that it has certain amount of philoshophy included in it. In addition to this, the story requires you to suspend your disbelief to a certain extent. In fact, the concept of fate/pre-determination is prevalent in the majority of CLAMP's work from X to Tsubasa Chronicle. The majority of their stories involve the idea of going against pre-determined fate and making your own life.

Sorry to get off topic, but I have a question. Does anyone know where I can find the download of the first episode of Utawarerumono? Thankyou

I've read some material written by Dr. Wayne W. Dyer so I believe there a purpose for everything that happens, but at the same time you always have a choice. Those two statements contradict each other, but think of how someone is in form as they are also in spirit. You have a physical body, but also a spirit. Essentially, you are both. You are affected by this purpose intended by creation, but you also have free will. The free will to connect to this power of creation where once connected, allows you to create (or manifest) anything you want in your life. He describes this power as a loving force so unlike some of the poor CLAMP characters, it won't manifest suffering unless you want to attract that sort of energy. People who let their egos take over them tend to attract this negative energy. The difficult thing is we all have egos and from time to time they get the better of us. But I am deviating to a completely spiritual area. Sorry if you find these explanations lacking as I am learning myself. He (obviously) explains it better. He wrote a whole book on this called, The Power of Intention.

And uhh, I enjoy your summaries, Garten. =P

The whole Meta-spiritual thing is wayy out of my depth so I'm just going to say that I think this episode looks good and I hope the series will get as much episodes as Tsubasa.

Predetermination doesn't necessarily mean there is a god. A mechanistic universe is also predetermined because it works according to mechanical laws. the starting condition determines everything else.

Michi's comment reminds me of Buddhism, where there are some predetermined things determined by your previous karma, which manifests itself in some conditions in your life which you can't help, e.g. where you were born, your physical conditions, tendencies; as well as in less obvious conditions like Really Bad Luck and events (which you can't necessarily tell have been brought about by karma, but are usally quite important and sometimes happen even though it seemed impossible.)

However by having an ego you are constantly creating karma, whether it is good or bad, and the results of it will always affect you, sometimes in this life, sometimes the next. So even those 'predetermined things' are ultimately your own fault - or rather, the fault of one of your selves earlier in your thread of existence throughout various lives. You can't really call it your 'self' (if you were to argue, ultimately Buddhism teaches about the lack of a 'self').

Something like that.

I'm about to watch the episode and really should shut up with all this rambling, but I couldn't resist because I find this sort of stuff very fascinating. I haven't read teh manga, but it's great to see that the show has these aspects - it actually sounds right up my alley. A CLAMP show being right up my alley?! Who'da thunk?

@_@ Uhh... all these philosofical thoughts... But they fit quite well in the world of CLAMP.

Yeah, just finished watching the first ep and I have to agree with Garten on the part that it was a little dissapointing in comparison to the movie. But I have to admit that first ep was set up very well and I really enjoyed it.

BTW, *Mokona rox*

Agh, now I have to see this (not like I didn't have to already). I did actually like xxxHolic more than Tsubasa:RC, because I loved the artwork and storytelling they did with that series. hopefully I can find some sort of subbing of it soon.

I think xxxHolic has an interesting view of predetermination, where there are certain things, like personalities and attitudes, that already determine the outcome of a situation long before it becomes one. However, in later chapters (of the manga, at least), there is always the opportunity of choice, that, when a path is chosen, almost immediately seals them into that fate. It's interesting to see how Yuuko can see the path people will most likely take, simply from a brief description, and react accordingly.

(incoherent, sorry)

If you want to know more about real predetermination, check out this article from your nearest library.

Parallel Universe

Actually, I just noticed that xxxHOLiC not only deals with the pre-destination theory, but it also deals with the belief about... well, let's call it equivalent trade (like in FMA).
Doesn't Yuuko always talk about it? In order to get your wish fulfilled you have to present something of equal value, or otherwise you'll get 'hurt'. So, I think this is really fascinating as well.

We've talked so much about pre-destination but noone has commented on this aspect yet which I consider as very important for the development of the story, and this statement is interesting as a statement about life imo.

I don't really agree on the pre-destination stuff, or rather, let's say I think it's really scary if it were true, but I like the way the CLAMP characters deal with their destiny. *yeah, SUFFER people, SUFFER*
OK, it doesn't really make sense what I wrote, but nvm. xD

I can't wait to see this! I've heard bad things about this episode but I still must watch it!

I always thought the rule of equivalent trade is pretty much applies to everything in life. It's true that it doesn't always happen but in order for two party to be happy. There has to be an equivalent exchange. For every goods that we want, we need to obtain it with money. In order for others to be your friend, you need to be kind to them. In order to get a good result with school, you need to study hard.

I think this is why holic is an interesting title because it's easy to relate to some of the words that yoko talk about. It's not always the case especially when she starts talking about Astrology. I personally don't believe in that kind of stuff but when you think about it, it does make a lot of sense.

I hate the opening. :P The episode was good, but the op was horrible...

Hey, CLAMP fans, CLAMP is coming to Anime Expo.
It's no Joke : D For info, or still don't believe me, visit anime-expo.org and check for yourself.

Sometimes I believe in chaos theory, but it's not exactly the same thing as predestination. I think the concepts of predestination or destiny or fate are all inventions that reflect human vanity. Human beings would like to think they are so important that they actually have a purpose in life. I, however, don't really believe individual life or even the human species has any true meaning or purpose. We are just a drop of organisms in the huge bucket of the universe.

On a lighter note, it's always fun to think about fate as an actual influencial force in your life. But mortality just scares me since I don't believe in any afterlife, God, or heaven.

What's with the black Mokona? We only saw the white one in Tsu. Chron., even though both appeared in the opening theme.

They're going to show the "lying woman" from the manga in the next episode. I saw it in the preview for the next episode and Yuuko was saying things about oaths, promises, and contracts. As for the lying woman in the first episode, I think her issue wasn't lies exactly, but wishing for something to the point where she would lie about it and fantasize about being able to see spirits. In short, coveting what she doesn't have and not completely aware of what effects it would have.

heheh white and black mokona are connected to each other... if u read the manga... its is where tsubasa and xxxholic will connect (Ex. yuuko wants gift from syaoran and other, they have to give it to white mokona :D and black mokona will receive it! lmao!!! its really cute ^_^)

xxxholic is really diff in all anime ^_^ cool and scary!!!

im still looking for xxxholic torrent... help pls... @_@

The epizod was great - but where can i find the opening to this serie ? It was here but teh time epired so it is no longer possible to download - I beg for help because i like this music - is here anyone who could help me ?

When I was watching Yuuko explain the inevitable stuff and how some things that happen can effect other things, makes me think about the Chaos Theory aka Butterfly Effect.

I think it was in math or physics class.

Basically if I buttefly flaps it's wings in North America it will cause a rainfall or something in another part of the world. In other words something that happens no matter how insignificant or small can effect something else in ways that we can't imagine... somethign like that.

I've been thinking about how people are questioning the concept of 'Hitsuzen' (Inevitability). I wouldn't agree with Garten's understanding of it. From how I see it, "Hitsuzen" shouldn't be simply understood as "fate", because Yuuko has never really suggested that any part of life is created and predetermined by God, as opposed to what chromega wrote. And the anime is not saying we cannot make our own decisions. It is not like that a devine figure has all our life planned out. We do make decisions and they do matter. All events are influenced by our decisions, but have you ever wondered what influences our decisions? I think it's our personality, the way we were brought up, our experiences with other human beings. These things are the result of our parent's ideology, of pop music, of politics, of television, of movies we see, of technology, of religion, of everything human-related we encounter after being born as an infant who didn't know anything at all. It's a series of events, causes and effects, like the Butterfly Effect. But these things are all really part of culture. It is something that naturally exists in every human community, and it is continuously being defined by every generation. We as a society define our culture, but in turn it defines ourselves, our identity, our idealism, our decisions, our lives. Thus Yuuko is right, everything is inevitable. So I really don't think, as hinted by Garten, that one's choice in life has some sort of significance or independence, because even though we think we are making our OWN decisions, living our OWN lives, while really it's just a step in a dynamic chain reaction inherent of humanity -- culture.
(Wow.. I should really go study anthropology.)

Anyways, enought of that, I love this anime! As of now xxxHOLiC and Rozen Maiden are my favourites. They both have such unique gothic styles. I'm constantly on the lookout for similar animes and I hope people would make more of these kinds of things: a little dark, a little light-hearted, and a little deep.

There was a CCS crossover in this episode if anyone realised, when Watanuki found Mokona, some stuff fell to the floor and there was the staff on the ground which resembles the one sakura used.

This is just what I think of 'fate' : there is a set of conditions that is predetermined. But there are also choices available within that set of conditions.
Predetermined condition: Your parents, intelligence, environment, etc. Part of this will determine your nature.
For example, 2 persons born with the exact same characteristics, intelligence will differ due to their upbringing, environment, experiences. One might turn out good-natured, and the other jaded.
One interesting note is if one is 'fated' to be good-natured, he or she will be placed in a relatively comfortable environment, which will encourage 'good-natureness'.
However, the one placed in a difficult environment has to work harder to go against that flow of his 'fate'. He is more likely to become jaded, but changing his 'fate' is not entirely impossible.
It's like playing a game. The nature of the game is fixed.
An easy game (comfortable life) makes winning more likely, as compared to the less possibility of completing an extremely challenging game (difficult life), as 1 is more likely to give up.
It is Watanuki's 'fate' that he attracts spirits and meet Yuuko. But it is his choice whether to cooperate with her.
But I often wonder, if 2 people are fated to meet, will they meet regardless of their choices?

(It is also interesting is to note is death is not entirely based on 'fate'. The explanations are surprisingly logical.)

Hitsuzen is not only fate, but a more rational concept that does not require a Supreme Being because it basically states that from the beginning of time all things have been predetermined due to the original conditions of all things. The forces that move to cause this inevitability are not always visible, and it is often impossible to follow the chain of events that leads to a particular inevitability, but they are there. Hitsuzen is basically an endless chain of cause and effect that brings about all events in a godless and completely mechanical universe.

I think it’s very difficult to explain ‘hitsuzen’ in English as the concept takes a different perspective from western beliefs. By translating the word as ‘fate’ is also a little incorrect. I’d prefer ‘inevitable consequence of certain actions’ but that’s still a little off from what I think it should be since English can be quite ambiguous at times. I think the concept of ‘hitsuzen’ here is definitely not ‘pre-determined destiny’ (as in the later volumes of the manga Yuuko commented on how her shop is created to change the future of the Tsubasa protagonists and Watanuki). I also, from a philosophical view think that rather than saying ‘everything happens for a reason’ it seems more correct, under the ‘hitsuzen’ concept, to say that ‘every action has an consequence’. People are faced with choices everyday in their lives, and what they choose to do lead to that happens to them in the future. This is what I feel ‘hitsuzen’ is.

By the way, Mokona’s cute!!! And it drinks alcohol!!!…lol

oh. color me mortified. was this where i was supposed to post my trolling comments about the butt ugly kimono ribbon and the annoying mouse ear brats? ;p

those boobs have to go. i might not make it to the part where the series get interesting at this rate.