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ローゼンメイデン 
For someone who spends the majority of his time discussing anime and animation, I seem to have a difficulty recognizing what is animated and what is real. When I first boot up Metal Gear Solid 4, I wondered why the eggs that a character called Sunny fries look so real. I really thought that the eggs are actually CGI but as it turns out, they are actually a film of real eggs that have been superimposed on top of the CGI. During the intro, I saw a bunch of characters that look like real humans but I wasn't sure if they are real or they are CGI that looks too close to reality until I saw David Hayter (Snake's English voice actor) as one of the character included. The same thing now happens with the new anime, Mahou Tsukai ni Taisetsu na Koto - Natsu no Sora (What's important for a magic user - Summer sky), otherwise known as Someday's Dreamer - Summer Sky. When I first saw the backgrounds, I thought they are real-life pictures. However, due to discussion between several posters, I now wonder if the backgrounds are actually CGIs that simply look life-like.
The main shot above is probably the one that confuses me the most. That shot looks so realistic that I am not sure if it's actually CG. Of course it is possible that the animator spent so much time with 3D lighting to the point that he/she managed to create 3D light that looks life-like. I think the most realistic part of that image is the large tree and the barren area on the right side of the image. In reverse, the vegetation on the left side looks a bit unrealistic. However, it is hard to say one way or another since it's a long shot of the scene with the tree as the main focus. As a result, the left vegetation and the right barren area look blurry (thanks to depth of field of the shot). Bear in mind that in prior to this scene, there is another scene where Sora walks toward the tree while holding her bike. If the backgrond is just a photo of real-life place, the animators would have to shrunk her character size as she walks further from the screen so that she looks like she's heading towards the tree. If this is a CGI, however, it would have been easier to super-impose the 2D animation on top of the 3D.
The first shot from the three above is also hard to figure out because the 2D image of Sora looks so out of place in contrast to the background. IMO, the bigger the discrepancies between the foreground 2D object and the 3D object, the more that the background feels like real-life photograph. There are, however, three things that make me question whether this is actually a photograph. The first one is the stop sign. It looks so flat and 2D. However, it can be assumed that the animators probably re-painted that particular detail in photoshop so that it'll look flat and 2D. The grass, on the other hand, does not convince me. Maybe I am just not observant enough but I've never seen a strand of wild grass looking that identical to other grass next to it. To me, the grass pattern look like they have been repeated using photoshop clone tool or an equivalent 3D program. Last but not least, there's a lack of life in that background. Although this can be explained easily: the director ordered a section of a village to be closed down while they shoot that scene.
The second one is pretty much like the first one. The only sticking point here are the trucks, which look like they've been painted. The third picture is really beautiful that it's hard to believe that it's not real. Like I said before, the bigger the contrast between the background and the foreground 2D, the more the background feels life-like. This picture looks exactly like the area that my friends and I visited when we went biking in Japan. And since rural Japan usually is quiet, it's not hard to believe that there's no one else in that shot. The fourth image below is probably just 2D animation of cherry tomatoes although I remember thinking it looks realistic. Up close it doesn't look that realistic though. The fifth image is another unbelievable image. The house looks so real that it's hard to believe that it can be CG. The dog house in the last pic, however, tore up that argument because while the dog house looks real, everything else including the grass looks like painting. The rubber wheel, for example, looks like a photograph which has been given additional paint on top of it.
So what's the verdict here? Unless there's an authorative source (an interview where the director states that the backgrounds are CGIs or real life photos) that says one way or another, I think there are 3 possibilities here. The first one is that the backgrounds are real-life photographs or films which have been touched up so that they look more anime-like than real-life photos. Picture number two with the stop sign certainly suggests that this could be the case. The second possibility is that like some people said, all of the backgrounds are actually CGIs that look realistic in some instances, but are stylized to be more anime-like in others. This is why the trucks in the 3rd picture look unrealistic even though the rest looks pretty realistic. The last possibility is that the background image is a mix of media which includes: 3D animation, 2D animation/painting, and real-life pictures. Picture number six is probably the best representation of this. The dog house looks like a real photograph dropped onto a 2D painting which has 3D rubber wheel and a 2D animation of a dog.
At any rate, I wonder what's everyone first exposure to Uncanny valley? The term basically refers to robot which looks almost like human but not quite there. These days, the term is also used for 3D renderings which look semi-realistic that it's unsettling. For example, have you seen Heavy Rain's teaser trailer? This is basically an upcoming detective game for PS3 and the game intends on having a real-time character render, with human-like emotions. Bear in mind that the whole thing is just a first test render so it's very unrefined, especially the mouth/the teeth. However, the minute it reaches the climax of the story, I got a chill sensation because at times she looks kind of real but at the same time not real. Outside games, we have non-human 3D characters like Jar-Jar (awful) and Golem (passable, I suppose). And then there are Final Fantasy and Beowulf, where all of the characters are CGI. They are pretty nifty but again, the uncanny valley is still there. It'd be interesting how this would affect distribution of roles in the movie industry as well. This would also mean that characters that were previously impossible to cast using a person can now be created in 3D.
Poll:
1. Do you think the background graphics in Someday's Dreamer - Summer Sky are CGI or real-life photographs or something else?
2. Do you like this kind of mixture of 2D anime and 3D background/real-life photo?
3. Have you had an uncanny valley moment? What was the first one?
4. What's the future of anime and animation in Japan once real-life characters are possible and not cost-prohibitive? Do you think more and more producers will produce 3D animation instead of 2D anime?
I don't really think it's #2 at all. It's more like #1 where they work off a photograph. I don't think there is a need to use 3d CG unless they want to pan around it, and there just aren't any shots in episode 1 where you see the same thing in different angle in a moving shot.
By the way if you look at the totally 2d-drawn promo image of the series and compare it with uncannyvalley01LG.jpg you can see the scene in the anime must have been a photograph...
Yeah, I don't think those backgrounds are CGIs either. One or two items are probably CGIs (the plane in the last few minutes of the episode, for example) but to say that all of the backgrounds are CGIs is a bit of a stretch, IMO.
As for uncanny valley, there's this one photograph of an Asian girl. But then later on I found out that it's a 3D render of an actress with the same face. It was kind of creepy at that time.
I don't think (and i hope), anime won't turn into 3D animation. I think there's something special about anime and I don't want Japan to be like US when it comes to their animation (everything is in 3D these days).
1. Agree with your first verdict that they can real-life photographs that are added with anime touch...
2. Actually, I found it very unique...
Anyway, I have also seen the Heavy Rain trailer... That girl is animated very well. Those tears running down from her eyes as well as her facial muscles were realistic. I have no idea what the game will be all about but basing from that trailer, I think there would be cinematic scenes there...
I don't understand why there's a need to do this. Especially if it turns out that the background is CGI. Wouldn't it be cheaper to just do the whole thing in 2D? Also, it doesn't make the series look better, it just looks weird to me.
That video game looks pretty good but the girl needs to be better modeled. I also hope that anime will stay as anime instead of turning into 3D like all Disney's current efforts.
The thing that's been bothering me the most about this is that people now have started to compare this to Shinkai works. I mean, be it photographs, CGs, whatever, it doesn't look ANYTHING like Shinkai's works.
As for your question, I suppose I'd go with the photographs/edited/CGI stuff. And I don't really like it, mainly because while it actually works in some scenes, for the majority of the episode the characters just look out of place, especially considering how simple the character's art is.
I thought about the same thing. I assumed that it is CG + real photo + photoshop or something like that. The reason why I didn't think it was solely CGI is because I doubted they have enough man power to do so. However, according to the Moon Phase source, it seems like the background work is indeed not a photo. Pretty crazy eh? ^^;;
I think I'll go with option 3; mixed media, but without CGI. I think most of what is seen in the first episode can be done with photographs and traditional painting. If it turns out to be all hand painted using photos as reference, I wouldn't be surprised.
I'm liking it and I don't have a problem with the anime characters in realisitic background combination; I have always liked how anime can have very cartoonish characters interacting with (relatively) realistic objects and places. Natsu no Sora just took it to another level.
I can't remember my first uncanny valley moment, but I had had several of them; quite a feeling.
I can see 3D taking a slice of shows in the future, but, to me, the greatest challenge for 3D is to avoid the uncanny valley; they either keep it simple enough to not look awkward or make it look so real, it would be difficult to tell it apart from the real thing (Doctor Cid from the Final Fantasy movie is the closest I have seen at the latter).
1. I've been informed that they were all done in CGI. I could have been informed incorrectly though.
2. Heck yes. I just wish the character designs were a little more, err, detailed - it's been a trend. There are so many series/OVAs/movies out there that have breathtaking backgrounds but extremely bad character designs. I don't mind 2D, I just mind bad 2D.
3. Nope.
4. It's Japan - anything could happen.
I think they are mixed as well. There's no way some of those backgrounds could be CGIs. They are just too detailed and realistic and I don't think the animators have that kind of budget. If they do, they won't cheap out on the 2D animation.
Helen, what kind of information is it and from whom? I mean, if it's just from a message board then it's unreliable
1) Don't know since I watched a crappy RAW :)
2) Yeah, i love all anime styles, whether it's the unique style in Gankutsou or the style here.
3) I think the characters in MGS4 looked incredibly real. Of course I could tell the difference between them and real people, but the line got really blurry towards the very end where the main character of Raiden looks unsettlingly real.
5) I'm not actually much of 3D anime to begin with. I'd gladly take the style of say El Cazador De la Bruja over all the FF and otehr CGI movies combined.
I would say that it's a combination of Rotoscoping and a few camera tricks when taking the photos. Lighting, exposure, focusing. I'm just basing these off the screencaps though. They could be compositing the sky and a few background elements, too.
i just think some are real life pics and they are top off a bit with some painting strokes (blurred at high res possible too) ; which is common nowadays (though its the first time i've seen this technique used in an anime )
1. I think it's a mixture of both.
2. Yes and no, some looks great some just looks wierd.
3. Not yet.
4. Perhaps there will be lots of 3D animation but there will still be 2D, just like pencil, people still use pencil when alot of people use mouse / tablets.
Maybe it's a weird combination at first, but when we get used to it maybe it's acceptable. or, maybe still not.. XD
I quite enjoyed the slow, soft pacing of Episode 1, it really captures the human essence of rural life almost as efficiently as Studio Ghibli's 'Only Yesterday' did
I agree with the first possibility; that they are original photographs, re-filtered and rendered to fit in with the cel shading. Looks like they were aiming for a softening of the borders. It almost works, but the side-effects are visible in several scene shots where inanimate objects like a car are slotted into the background. I think the other clue that they were originally photos is the composition of the shots - they're incredibly natural for a pure CG shot
I recall several shots of the opening minutes of 'Macross Zero' used something similar, but I've never seen it used to this extent before. I don't mind it - and the panoramas are stunning, but it compromises the fluidity of the animation in scenes where the clarity of the background, whichever way the artists have treated it, jars with the lack of random movement and the simplicity of the designs. Also, what I'm not sure of is how this approach will work when the setting switches from the sunlight-drenched countryside to the bustling Tokyo metropolis
My first encounter with the 'Uncanny Valley' was in the literature of Issac Asimov; specifically that robots might eventually become indistinguishable from humans - I got the sense that something sacred and inviolable had just been overturned (I think I was 12 at the time)
As for the effect on the anime industry; anime budgets have been growing steadily in the past decade, and yet the designers still stand by their traditional design principles; I don't think it will have that much effect - there's a strong nostalgic pull, I suspect. The other factor is that for series using manga as their template, they may well want to stick to the original image style
hi garten! i read this post before watching antique bakery. i just watched it and it reminded me of your post LOL. anyways, i think it's right up your alley (except the shonen-ai part, but i was told that only one of the main chara is gay). it has good op/ed (by chemistry), eye candy (omg the desserts!) and considering the fact that it's in the noitamina slot, it's worth a mention, i think? i'm still getting used to the 2d/3d incorporation in the anime though :) oh and the main character is hanamoto sensei~~
Definitely real photos with 'shopped elements. I am not an expert in the field, but have worked enough with photographs to know that it can be done. In some of the projects I worked we used real photographs and made them look handpainted, though stopping "halfway" could have achieved some of the effects you see in this show.
Either way, the simultaneous contrast and complement the "conflicting" styles in this show create is stunning.
Compare this shot for instance:
http://www.designchronicle.com/memento/images/somedaysdreamer/summersky/01/natsunosora0102LG.jpg
With this one:
http://www.designchronicle.com/memento/images/vantagepoint/uncannyvalley/uncannyvalley06LG.jpg
Clearly the backdrop is the same "area." The angle of the shot, however, is slightly changed. Certainly this is possible to pull off with 3D as well as photographs, but we notice how different the grass is - and one would think they would be similar in 3D, but different if touched up separately. The quality of the ground also appears to be different (though the sample in the close-up makes it harder to tell).
So I think there are certainly CG elements involved here with certain props, but the basis are generally real photographs.
i love that first picture posted
it is such a contrast
lushness on the left and barrenness on the right
i would love to have this as a wallpaper
as to whether it is CG or real,
i dont really have sufficient experience to say either way,
i cant tell
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