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ファイト／ステイナイト 
Wow. Just wow. Now this is what I was talking about. A show which doesn't show black/white characters but instead characters who are borderline grey due to the circumstances they get thrusted in. I am glad that the writers decided not to make Lelouch a simple villain like Light in Death Note but instead put him in a situation in which he has little control. In the end, the circumstances which happened around him was not really his doing. The same can be said about Euphemia. I'm glad the writers finally decide to take her out of her goodie two-shoes role and put her in a situation which complicates her well-meaning intention. With only 3 more episodes before the end of the season, I hope the series goes out with a bang before returning for a second season later on this year.
The episode begins with Dalton and General Bartley appearing behind the vice-minister and a few other people who have been talking about Euphemia's recent decision. Bartley is especially pleased because he didn't anticipated that Euphemia's announcement will actually rattled out a few 'rats'. Meanwhile in Mt.Fuji, Suzaku mentions to Euphemia that the application for the Special Administrative Japan has gone over 200,000 people. Euphemia believes that this can be attributed to Suzaku, whom she believes is a representation of the Japanese people and therefore is trusted by them. Suzaku denies this and claims that it's because a Royal princess made the announcement herself. Because of this, she thanks Euphemia for her effort. Euphemia tells Suzaku that from now on, she'll also need his help. Suzaku is about to respond with "Yes, Your Highness" but Euphemia gives him a disapproving look so he just tells her "Yes".
Meanwhile, the news reported that the Special Administrative Japan is the first to be attempted by Britannia and is pioneered by Princess Euphemia herself. Nina, who hears the news tries to tell herself that since this is what Euphemia said, she will go along with it. The news then end by saying that tomorrow's opening ceremony will be relayed to the world. Cut to a shot of Lelouch looking pissed off. Meanwhile, Schneizel tells Cornelia that this is a great thing. He believes that this means terrorism in Area 11 will lose support and will soon collapse. He hopes that this will stabilize the peace. Cornelia coldly tells her brother that she personally oopposed the idea. Schneizel, however, asks her to understand that Dalton will be asked to help out in the area. Cornelia tells Schneizel that as a Governor-general, she'd put official policy on track. Schneizel wonders if this means that Cornelia officially accepts Euphie's petition.
At the same time, Kyoto group concludes that the Special Administrative Japan is not such a bad idea. Kirihara believes that this is the result of their resistance so he's not ashamed about it. The others, however, think that Kirihara says this because he's been promised a position in the new zone but Kirihara tells them not to be suspicious since he's only been asked to attend the opening ceremony. Kaguya, on the other hand, is more concerned about Zero and wonders what would happen to the Black Knights. Meanwhile the Black Knights are having emergency meeting about the situation. Toudou quick to point out that they are quickly losing backers and members. Diethard agrees and points out that unlike joining Black Knights, there is no risk about the Special Administrative Japan. Laksharta adds that no matter how one looks at it, in comparison to choosing a man who hides behind a mask, choosing an honest Princess seems to be a better bet.
One of the members also points out that Kyoto seems co-operating with this new region, pissing off Tamaki in the process. Another believes that it's because Britannia promised 'equality', prompting Karen to tell them that they can't possibly trust what Britannians said. At any rate, they have to decide now. This causes Ougi to remember what Villetta said after he clearly has made sweet, sweet love to her. That bastard. Anyway, she basically said that there won't be anything that separates them as Britannian or Eleven in that area. Because of this Ougi wonders why they don't join Euphemia's plan. Tamaki reminds Ougi that they will be under Britannia's rule. In response Ougi argues that there's no conflict between what Zero has said and participation in the special area. One of Toudou's guards reminds Ougi that it's possible that they'll be disarmed under the pretense of peace. Toudou agrees and thinks that they'll lose their independence.
Diethard laments the fact that if they don't join, they'll become the enemy of freedom and equality. Ougi snaps and tells them that this is why they should join. Diethard is not convinced and want some kind of guarantee, causing Ougi to retort that they can't just ignore this. In the city, Lelouch apologises to Rivalz because the guy has to go all the way to the city to drop him off. Rivalz doesn't mind and seems more interested with the fact that Shirley is waiting for Lelouch. Lelouch, however, tells the guy that they're just out to shop. Their conversation is interrupted when they hear an aristocrat beating up an Eleven, asking the boy what special area the boy was talking about. The guy asks the Eleven if he thinks he's already an equal. Lelouch decides to confront the jerk and when his bodyguard tries to block him, Lelouch simply geassed the guard, telling him to go home. After this, Lelouch attempts to geass the aristocrat so he'd go and die.
However, before he manages to do this, Rivalz already steps in between the two of them. As a result, Lelouch decides to close his Geass eye. After the aristocrat left, the Eleven thanks Lelouch for his help. Shirley who sees this is surprised to see Lelouch saving an Eleven. After a while, however, she thinks it makes sense that he saves an Eleven since he's Zero. On the other hand, she also wonders why Lelouch was with Euphemia before. In the end Shirley decides that she'll just put herself in danger if she gets closer. Meanwhile, Dalton is paying a visit to Kirihara, promising business transaction if Kirihara comes to tomorrow's opening ceremony. Of course, Dalton expects Kirihara to stop all sorts of contribution to the Black Knights. He then leave Kirihara after telling him that even if Zero does not come tomorrow, his defeat has been decided. Later on that night, Lelouch returns to his home and lets Nanaly knows that Shirley didn't show up.
Nanaly who senses her brother's worry decides to ask what's bothering him and guesses it's Euphemia. Upon hearing this, Lelouch wonders if Nanaly likes Euphie. When Nanaly confirms this, Lelouch tells her that he liked her too although his expression clearly betrays his words. On the day of the opening ceremony, a TV announcer relays the news that there are many elevens...er, Japanese, to be politically correct in the area. Japanese people who can't come in have decided to gather outside the hall. As for Zero, the announcer reports that he's nowhere in the area. The Chinese Federation and the European Union, who now watch the event on TV, for some reason believe that Zero won't come to the ceremony. The Emperor himself is now standing on top of his over-the-cloud throne. Much to everyone's surprise, Zero then comes on top of Gawain. Dalton wonders if Zero has come to surrender while Kirihara wonders what Zero intends to do.
Kirihara knows that everything will be over if people finds out that Zero is the royal prince of Britannia. If people know about this, they would assume that the entire thing is a farce and consequently, the Special Administrative region will be over. Meanwhile, pilots from various frames are ordered to shoot on the spot if Zero makes suspicious movement. Euphemia, on the other hand, welcomes Zero with open arm but is surprised when he tells her that he'd like to talk to her privately. Upon seeing this, Cecile tells Lloyd that as she thought, they should have gone there as well. Lloyd thinks it can't be helped since Lancelot is being fixed due to the fact that everyone thinks that Zero won't come. Meanwhile, Euphemia's men have confirmed that Zero doesn't have any weapon on him. Suzaku, however, is not sure about this and thinks it's too dangerous for Euphemia to be alone with Zero. Euphemia, however, assures Suzaku that it'll be okay and asks the guy to trust her.
Meanwhile, the Black Knights are waiting on the outskirt of the area. Tamaki becomes impatient so Karen reminds him that Zero asked them to wait here. Knowing the danger, the group has asked Diethard and Laksharta to be on alert. At the same time, Euphemia has taken Zero inside her command centre. She has turned off the lights and camera so Lelouch can take off his mask. After taking off his mask, Zero revals a ceramic needle gun which was undetected by Euphemia's men. Euphemia thinks that Lelouch won't shoot her. Lelouch confirms this because she'll be the one doing the shooting. Outside, Suzaku hears something thumping and gets a vision of the Geass symbol etched on a rock. When he turns around, he sees green sparks materialising outside Gawain. Inside Gawain, C.C realises that Suzaku can see her. She wonders if it's because of that indirect contact and the incident on Kaminejima island or if it's because of 'that person'.
Back to Zero, he's in the middle of reminding Euphemia that this ceremony is broadcasted all over the world. He then asks her what she thinks would happen if she were to shoot him. Euphemia immediately guesses that there will be a riot. Zero confirms this and tells Euphemia that it would look as if Zero has been deceived, making him a martyr and causes Euphemia's popularity to plummet. Euphemia thinks that Zero is joking around but Zero accuses her of being similar to Clovis if she forced this. Zero plans on reviving miraculously because people are weak against miracle. Zero then urges Euphemia to take the gun. He thinks there must be only one messiah and he wants people to know that Euphemia is an imposter. All of a sudden, however, he keels over because his left eye is in pain. Outside, C.C decides to ask Suzaku about something but she gets the same pain in her left eye. The mark on top of her head also lights up.
Suzaku who is concerned about her decides to check on her. However, this causes him to touch C.C and in the process he receives another vision. This time around, however, it features Marianne, Lelouch's mother. Due to the overload, Suzaku passes out, prompting the guards to think that C.C has done something to him. However, when they touch her, their eyes turn red and they see a horrifying vision which also caused them to fall unconscious. Meanwhile, Euphemia tries to help Lelouch but he refuses because he doesn't want her pity. Before he can Geass her, however, Euphemia tells him that she has stopped using that name. She gave up her right to imperial succesion. Euphemia reveals that she did it for Nanaly's sake after she heard the girl saying that she doesn't need anything else if she could be with Lelouch. Lelouch thinks Euphie is an idiot for doing this but admits that she's always Euphie before she's a Governer-general/a princess.
Euphemia then offers to shake Lelouch's hand. Lelouch takes her hand and admits that she's won. He even offers to lay a plan to ensure that this special region works effficiently. Euphemia decides to ask him if he thinks she'd shoot him if he threatens her. Lelouch tells her that wasn't his plan and admits that he's capable of giving order that no one can defy. When Euphemia thinks that Lelouch is just joking, Lelouch gives an example such as if he orders her to kill the Japanese, it will have nothing to do with her will. All of a sudden, Euphemia's eyes turn red. Although she claims that she doesn't want to kill, a few seconds later, the command has override her consciousness. Lelouch finally realises that he has accidentally geassed Euphemia due to his Geass eye becoming fully active. Just like Mao, he can't turn off the power now. Lelouch tries to cancel his order but Euphemia already picks up his gun and runs out of the vehicle.
Outside, Schneizel tells Bartley that he intends on returning to England since he has talk with the Chinese Federation. Upon hearing this Bartley asks Schneizel if the experiment on the living body's confirmity will be conducted here. When Schneizel confirms this, Bartley informs him that the research's intelligence is limited to Area 11. Because of this, Schneizel promises to contact Rosenberg research institute. Once he's done that, he'll send the test prototype and machinery. Bartley tells Schneizel that after this, they should do something about the ruin in Kaminejima island. Schneizel agrees that after the peace in Area 11 is stabilised they will do that. He's just glad that Euphemia makes things easier by doing this. All of a sudden Euphemia runs to the podium and asks the Japanese people to kill themselves. When she realises that they won't do it, she decides to massacre them. Dalton tries to confront her but ends up getting shot as well.
Preview
Suzaku eventually regains his consciousness and is shocked to see the massacre. He tries to stop the soldiers but because he's also Japanese, they try to kill him as well. Feeling disturbed by the entire incident, Lelouch tries to leave and manages to pass Dalton unscatched because the later is wounded. Inside Gawain, C.C is surprised about this incident but Lelouch tells her that this is not his doing. Upon seeing Lelouch's active Geass eye, C.C understands that what happened then. Meanwhile, the Emperor laughs happily while Schneizel is in shock after seeing the massacre. Back to Zero, he now realises that the only thing they can do now is to make the most out of this. After destroying Britannian planes, he issues order to the Black Knights stating that Euphemia has become their enemy and the Special Administrative Japan was just a trap. He orders the group to destroy Britannia army and save the japanese. Lelouch then cries and gives his final order: to find and kill Euphemia.
Impression:
I am still in shock over what happened to Euphemia. It's ironic to know that this happens after Lelouch was willing to work with her. The question is, was this a tragedy or something that has been planned by someone else? On a glance, it does look like a tragedy but judging from C.C's expression, I'd say there is more to this. It also doesn't help that the Emperor was seen laughing like a maniac while his sons/daughters are looking on in terror. At least we are now aware that despite everything else, Schneizel is not involved in this mess. Come to think of it, I don't think he reacted to the massacre scene as well as Cornelia had been in the past. In addition to this, what is Suzaku's connection to incident. He actually saw a flash of Marianne in his vision. Does it mean that he was Marianne's killer? I also want to know what actually caused the Geass power to materialise permanently in a person's eye. At any rate, this means Lelouch can't go to school anymore because there's no way he can explain what happened to his eyes now.
oh wow. i'm speechless. just speechless.
I can't believe it. I haven't been watching the series for a while and suddenly it becomes interesting?
wow...she was all like...haha. And then killed everyone.
;o;
Now there's no hope for a happy ending.
......HELL YES!
Now this episode just made up for all the cheese in the series by itself, hell it probably even made up for Gundam Seed a little bit.
This is probably going to end in an epic 2 episode long throw down to see which group can force the other into the pacific..
OMG. OMG. OMG. I can't believe this. I'm glad they have the balls to do this instead of just following GSD ad nauseum. I think the Emperor plays all of them like a nice instrument that jerk.
this episode shows that the geass power has no mercy in anyone..........
200,000 people? Are they all dead now? How many Japanese people are left then? Is there any point of saving them now they're almost extinct? *flails*
Awesome development, Code Geass!!
Believe it or not, some people are upset over this episode. They even swear that they won't watch anymore now that Euphemia/Suzaku's pairing is destroyed beyond recognition.
Hey, I say screw people who can't take a good tragic romance. That episode just redeemed Euphemia and Suzaku in my eyes just because something bad happens to them.
Bonus points for giving the "Kill them all speech" in a happy voice.
Judging from what I just read, seems to me that someone (possibly V.V., that white haired weirdo boy from episode 19) or another one of C.C.'s people has interfered with Lelouch's Geass.
But Yay, Yippy Yi Yay the Black Knights live on....
What can one say? Genocide happens.
(Sorry, I wish this site had an edit comment button)
I wonder how much of the decision to 'kill' Euphemia off was based on the fact that her romances sounded so cheesy. (no pun intended for pizza hut.)
And yes I admit, this is the only episode I feel sad for Suzaku, I hope who ever interfered with Lelouch's Geass pays hell soon. Man the guy was totally about to cooperate with Euphiemia when he found out she was doing all this for Nunally.
Makes me wonder if the Emperor was behind this fearing, probably knowing that Lelouch = Zero, that his policy of evolution through conflict wouldn't happen if Euphie and Lelouch joined hands (not talking about anything romantic here, for christ's sake they share the same father so what makes people think they have any romantic feelings.) Though from the way he is laughing this sorta seems unlikely, but who knows.
Anyways this casulty I don't think we can blame it on Lelouch or anyone. Because once it comes down to the main root of the problem, it's The Emperor (whats that theme from Star Wars VI again when the emperor arrives onboard the second death star?)
...THAT'S AWESOME...
...well Lulu...what can I say...play with fire...BURN like Hell...
This is Sunrise, alright - massacres, people turning on one another... and a madman laughing in the background. Man, that just looked WEIRD with Euphie going around killing people like she enjoyed it.
I don't get some of your opinions:
@Novan
What makes you think someone interfered with Lulu's Geass? Just like he said, his geass is getting a dominant effect, just like Mao did. This goes to say that CC didn't lie when she said his power, the king's power, will make him isolated.
Though, I'm fairly certain now 53Britannia knows what's going on, that kind of laugh isn't possible unless you're crazy, or/and knows something no one else does.
#metatron
you know...200,000 is like...2% of Japan's population right now...take into effect the inavsion of Britannia, 200,000 should still be a small amount.
-----
personally, I am angry, angry at how this is going, of course, that's not to say I don't applaud this development, that's the way to write a story, a good story isn't all fluffy....yet I'm left the feeling that this is just amazingly tragic, and it was all because of Lulu's stupid words, why he can make so many little mistakes which evolve into huge scale ones is just...too realistic for me OTL I don't like this at all...I'm still going to watch CG, though, since I don't get why people can stop watching a show just because they're angry. Just like a book, there are parts that you don't like, but they drive the story, just like any other word in it.
But I still feel so sad =(
I believe the emperor know alot and understand much about Geass and see all this coming through. The self-activation Geass is a bit suprise but could be all in-line activation with things happen to Suzaku, C.C and Lelouch.
Overall, things just flip the opposite suddenly and no doubt... its a huge suprise despite most of the spoilers mentioned out on Magz.
Thumbs up to Sunrise, things are exactly not-predictable as in G.Seed and to that prospect... believe more suprising eps to come later on.
@karasu:
In case you didn't notice (en raison du manque de tous cerveaux), back in episode 19, when V.V. used his powers to send Lelouch, Suzaku, Kallen, and Euphie into the excavation site, Lelouch's eye also lit up with the Geass symbol. So that makes me think that there maybe one person amongst who knows how many of C.C.'s race is left who can manipulate another person's Geass ability.
I am also now wondering if there maybe a hidden storyline developing: Revenge by C.C.'s race against the people who killed them (possibly the brittanian royal family). Remember back in Episode 9, we saw images of a group of people with the Geass symbols on their forehead, a shrine or temple or convent where they were staying and an unknown group of people attacking them. What if C.C's people were nearly wiped out sometime ago and now some of the remaining survivors are manipulating world events to get revenge.
Sorta reminds me of how after certain 'Witch Trials' in the middle ages, survivors (those who managed to escape) of such trials would live in hiding and try to get revenge one way or another.
I was okay with this episode at first until the part where Euphemia started her killing spree. The amount of blood, even though it is just an anime show, is starting to scare me. Before this episode, from what I saw of the screenshots, the amount of blood in all the other episodes was really great at all. Otherwise, I'm mostly okay with how this is going.
Does this mean Lelouch's geass has evolved like Mao? Ok, maybe evolve is a wrong word to use
Err... 200,000 people registered for citizenship in the special administrative region, but there's no way that many were at the ceremony - I doubt they'd fit into that stadium. I'd say there were about 20-40,000 at the most.
@Jess:
Evolve is a perfectly fine way to describe what happened to Lelouch's geass.
@Novan:
I dunno 'bout any weird conspiracies you're brewing up about V.V., but what happened to Lelouch's geass was simply an accident. My guess is that his abuse of the power earlier in the episode finally triggered the evolution of his geass, and you know what happens next...
OMFG this episode rox
Code Geass for the win
Nande kore (may be spelled wrong)!!!! Talk about a sudden change of heart, the writers didn't have to do something this horrible, poor Euphemia. The minute she wakes up and sees the blood and gun, she'll blaim herself and I wonder what will happen. Also, seeing how much of a pyschotic Euphie's dad is for laughing at mass massacres, he's probably the one responsible for Marianne's death.
*cue: Imperial March*
talk about a trainwreck.
That was probably a few trainwrecks all thrown into one.
I guess all our debates about the more moral or practical course of action goes out the window with that one ep.
What I'm wondering is what Suzaku is going to do. He's japanese, so there's no chance that he'll even get a chance to talk with Euphie unless she's tied down and/or sedated, and would he kill her to stop the massacres if he got the chance? Very interesting possibilities....
@Novan
Hm? For one thing, V2 is a female, and two, we never knew if SHE was the one who did something, C2 only said that someone did, it could be anyone, even the Emperor himself. CC probably meant that because of 'that person,' Lulu got separated from her, not because of the seal thing.
Then, there's the fact that the seal activated BECAUSE lulu stepped on it, logistics aside, it means that the one who activated it was Lulu, not anyone else. Unless, of course, it was laid there recently.
@Miwako-san and One
The problem might be even worse, seeing as how Lulu's command was "kill Japanese." Without specifying the number...she might be inclined to kill everyone of Japan descent until they're all dead...
I really hope we don't have to see a Suzu kill Euphie scene =( Make Lulu take the responsibility, and just like he said...bear all the sins.. would be what I want. But...things might not go that way XD
Well, the black knights can use this incident to their advantage now
the end justifies the means
after all, numbers are just statistics...
Yeah, I'm thinking like Lelouch now
::evil grin::
@karasu:
If you haven't read the spoilers, I shall tell you now that V.V. is a shota trap.
As for Suzaku killing Euphie, that would be more ironic and interesting as far as story. Especially when you combine Euphie's "KILL ALL JAPANESE" Geass order with Suzaku's "I MUST LIVE" order.
One of the main story devices Sunrise uses for Mechs is the concept of misunderstanding the situation. It's been proven through numerous Gundam series.
That being said...
This misunderstanding has to be one of the bloodiest one I have seen in awhile. I wonder what's worse...this or the movie, 300? :P
Sunrise always used this concept....that is how it extends the series to a great extent.
I'm not suprised as to Euphie being the one shooting. In fact, I am not even surprised that the Emperor was laughing. What I am surprised is how Ougi is so desperate that he would listen to anything Villetta says.
For anyone who has watched Gundam SEED, Villeta is Code Geass' Fllay. Don't try to make excuses for her because we all know she will get her memory back eventually. I wouldn't be even surprised if she fake the whole thing (since it is possible she may have gotten her memory back already and try to dismantle the Black Knighs from the inside).
Once again...this story is not about Lelouche. People say it is...but right now, this story ties strongly to C.C. than anyone else in the series.
C.C. is also having a personal battle with someone. There are clear signs of it. Why else would she make a contract with Lelouche? Why would there be geass type interference occuring that was not triggered by C.C.? Why would she make another contract with Lelouche despite how it failed with Mao miserably?
It's all because she has a revenge that relates to her past.
This series shouldn't be called Code Geass -Hangyaku no Lelouche-. It should be called Code Geass -Revenge of the Past- (Couldn't resist ripping it off from Star Wars :P). It's obvious that both C.C and Lelouche's origin of revenge relies on the past.
The reason why Suzaku notice C.C. was pretty obvious. Whoever is fighting against C.C. (with the same powers) is assisting Suzaku in order to destroy C.C's plans. In other words, the person C.C holds a grudge against is trying to form an alliance with Suzaku. It is also possible that the rival of C.C. is playing as the puppetmaster in order to achieve his or her goal.
It's good to play with fire, but watch out or else you will get burned. Apparently, not only did Zero get burned but Euphemia as well.
@T_I
You mean you're only now starting to think like Lelouch? I've had his thought processes down pat since Episode 12. Makes his actions kinda boring because you see them coming but hey, it's nice when you get surprised by someone else and know exactly what Lelouch is going to do in response.
@Karasu
V2's male, "Fake Okouchi" posted the spoilers about V.V.'s maleness. And "Fake Okouchi," Ichiro Okouchi is the one who cowrote the story with Goro Taniguchi.
Miwako-san,
Just wanted to point this out for you. It's nanda Kore, not nande kore :P
Am I the only one who thought this was kinda boring in a typically Sunrise sense... You'd think Lulu would have more sense to try out a simple command on her like "hit the TV" or "throw a bottle" or heck, even "sm3x with me" and not something like "kill the Japanese", and that he'd do that because he's aware it could go wrong. He should know he doesn't know everything about Geass...
ah well, that's what CG's about.
'With only 2 more episodes before the end of the season, I hope the series goes out with a bang before returning for a second season later on this year.'
Correction, Garten. Code Geass is 25 episodes (look at Shoboi's Calendar). It would be 3 episodes instead of 2. I am also happy to announce that there will be no recap episodes from here on in :P
I'd like to add the unhappy fact that it's unknown as to when eps 24 and 25 will be aired. (DAMN RECAPS)
I can find no words other than to say that this is an unholy mess.
I don't get what the emperor wants with all this. Schnizel clearly had plans to do something similar but without so much blood. I'm guessing the emperor just wants total utter control over anything and does it in the goriest ways possible.
so euphie is stuck at killing all japanese forever? lelouch didn't actually give a timeframe. now i wonder what suzaku will do.
holy shi~!
the plot is getting interesting and Euphie pwned the elevens with just a sub-machine gun
just when Euphie will join LuLu's side this happens >
"Then, there's the fact that the seal activated BECAUSE lulu stepped on it, logistics aside, it means that the one who activated it was Lulu, not anyone else. Unless, of course, it was laid there recently."
If that were the case, it should've happened the instant he stepped on it. However it activated a short while after Zero and Suzaku confronted eachother, then we see the face of VV smiling, and we are shown that the Geass symbol lights up in Lelouch's eyes and on the ground at the same time. If we can accept the concept that Geass develops in different forms for different people, then we can also begin to assume that CC's people each have different forms of power.
If you look at the entire series and take into account certain information, it's easy to come up with some logical deductions.
Look at the entire series as a Whole, if you look at them as individual episodes, you can miss out on a lot of information.
This is what we call 'Data Mining', from a given set of data and information, we try to make logical deductions and information.
Even before this episode was aired, I'd already figured out that Lelouch's next logical step would be to somehow discredit Euphiemia. My only mistake was I thought he would Geass her into somehow harming(not killing) the Japanese, I didn't think he would try to Geass her into harming him.
This ep bothered me. But then, it always does when awful things happen to genuinely nice people.
Still, I'm happy to see that of all the ways it could have happened, this was a way that doesn't suddenly portray someone in a new and evil light.
Specifically Zero. I'm happy to see that he was planning on sacrificing himself, instead of the Japanese. Of course, damn Lelouch for having the most morbid sense of humor in the world. Or something. This is the sort of thing that's going to put Euphie into an insane asylum.
The one thing that surprised me was that apparently Schinsel is a decent guy, as far as the nobility goes. Of course the Emperor just seems to know way too much.
In the end, all I'm hoping for is a reasonably happy ending and no return of "Kill-em-all Tomino."
this is an unexpected episode
nobody think this anime will become like this, right?
at first i thought in this episode Lelouch will be caught by Cornelia or Schneizel and then Nanaly to the rescue!! with the help of V.V.
because i heard a rumor V.V. will have a connection with Nanaly
@Novan
Well, for one, Lelouch and Euphemia were each other's first love. Notice the use of 'were'. I'm not sure about Euphemia. But everything relating to his princely life had been 'were' to Lelouch after his mother's death. And I'm not even talking about grammar here.
Despite the fact that I actually cried when Lelouch said "Find Euphemia...and kill her!" with tears coming out of his eyes, this is undoubtly one of the best episodes in Code Geass. The massacre scene, although very sad, is somehow satisfying. I do hope that the awesomeness will continue all the way until episode 25 and not let a certain absurd spoiler I hoped to be fake ruin the whole thing.
Defade:
Is that spoiler from Fake Okouchi?
At any rate, you have to consider that Lelouch ordering Euphemia to be killed is also an act of mercy, in a way. If Euphemia knew what she had done, I can only imagine she'd go crazy. Especially if the order doesn't have a clear condition for ending. Imagine blacking out repeatedly, and seeing dead people all around.
@Blue:
Blacking out completely and waking up to see dead bodies...that sounds like another anime or manga we all know, the name escapes me at this moment.
If Lelouch's Geass has run amok, it seems extremely sudden to have happened on its own.
Perhaps Euphie won't litterally die, perhaps who knows they may capture her and isolate her up somewhere. However I wonder what Suzaku will do now seeing he is her Knight and its his duty to protect her.
Sorry I was thinking about the tv series Heroes, not an anime or manga....blacking out and waking to see dead bodies.
I astonished to Euphemia's murder...
But i think,Lelouch doesn't match harmonious world...
Novan:
It's not that sudden, really. Lelouch has been making liberal use of the ability (look at all the stuff the Black Knights have, or his willingness to step in and save the Japanese kid). Also, I think the ability was acting up earlier in this ep, during his aborted rescue attempt of the kid.
Euphie and Lelouch... Just how close they are to peace in mind and happiness... Now is all ruined easily like that, in only 3 seconds!!? Lelouch's final order almost makes me cry with him......I can't take this! This is too heartbreaking!!!
I wonder what's it the emperor finds so funny about... To know his children finally screw up? Or is Geass going out of control what he always waited for? I love the theory that he in fact knows Lelouch has been alive and decides to let him do what he wants, then waits patiently, knowing this day will come.
Oh my, looks like things have just been raised to a whole new level now.
I wonder how Lelouch would be able to operate without revealing the Geass eye when not actively working as Zero?
The reason the Emperor's laughing like a maniac.
Two possibilities.
1) He knows Zero=Lelouch Vi Britannia and he knows Lelouch has C.C. and a "Power of the King." He's rejoicing that a worthy heir has finally appeared and will probably announce it to the world at some point in time after Lelouch gains the top position in the accension line.
2) He doesn't know anything about Lelouch (unlikely). He sees Euphemia pulling what he would see as an utterly brilliant first step to a genocide, the first step to completely wipe out all terrorism in Japan. Something none of his other children have been able to do, which would make Euphemia a crowning jewel amongst his children to him.
@Blue
Now I begin to think that "kill-en-all" is the happiest ending for them. Surviving is nothing more than pain for Euphemia, and maybe for Lelouch... (Leouch has implied that killing her is the best grace for her, at the end of the ep. already, though)
@Blue:
If thats the case, they why now? Why did it have to happen at this moment?
Why couldn't it have happened during an earlier use of the power, or sometime later.
I think its too much of a coincidence. That it happens at this very moment at this certain type of command.
I still doubt it happened on its own. I even doubt it happened on its own for Mao, I am 100% positive that CC is still hiding something concerning Geass.
By the way, this is how I am viewing the comparison to the Legend of King Arthur and Code Geass from now on.
Emperor: Uther Pendragon
Marianne: Ingrain of Cornwell
Lelouch: Arthur
CC: Morgan la Fey
VV: Mordred
Wow... I'm actually somewhat impressed by Sunrise for this. The image of Yuffie going Terminator on the crowd made my jaw hit the floor. I just hope they go somewhere good with this, though I think this made up for some of Yuffie's earlier clicheness. I honestly didn't think they had the guts to make her do something like this.
@T_I:
I think it's a given fact that we care more about poor Euphie than about all those innocent people she just massacred T_T
@Novan
lol, this is way up there, but you said the seal activated after a while...actually, wasn't Lulu never on the open ground, until Euphie moved? He stepped on to the open patch of land/the seal AFTER that, and that's when it activated.
and it's interesting how you see it, but lol, Mordred and Arthur xD does that mean VV's Lulu's son!? xDDDDDD
@Novan
That really wouldn't work, because that means you're calling the ultimate villain of the show V.V. Mordred is the ultimate villain in the tales of King Arthur, he is the one who commits the biggest "crimes" and was the one who fatally wounded Arthur. There's so many other obviously hostile people in the show that V.V. really doesn't rank up there yet as being a possibility for the ultimate enemy. Things would line up so much better if the Emperor was Arthur, hell with Lelouch as Gawain things would make even more sense because right now, it's Lelouch who is most loyal to the Emperor's ideas and Gawain is the most loyal of Arthur's Knights.
Hell, Suzaku could betray Britannia if Euphemia=Guinevere for an even greater plot twist.
In order from most to least pure:
Very sad episode. The part which had the most meaning to me was Euphemia resisting geass for a good ten seconds. "I don't want to kill!" Have we seen anything like that before? She was definitely a strong person, the strongest in her entire family imo. She's the first in her position to die, I'll give sunrise that much.
Also, seems Suzaku's starting to develop something. Maybe V.V. chose him, as he was able to sense CC and Lulu's powers. On another note, I fear he will be a central point in Euphemia's death, driving him further into self-hatred, and with geass, paradox. Or he could decide to hate Zero more, with good reason. His rank might go to shit now though, and no one to protect him, except maybe a hesitant Cornelia. On another note, Suzaku could be putting the pieces together, with CC as well as Orange, Euphemia and his own mind warping under his witness.
Schnitzel suprized us all by having nothing particuarly evil in mind, just the collapse of the terrorists, even gasping at Euphemia's predicament. He is supposed to be as bad as Lelouch, but the scriptwriters are giving me some serious doubts.
The Emperor...was predictable. I am curious to see how his direct actions will play out, considering his intelligence and powerful indirect actions. He is at least as smart as Lelouch, and knows everything, most likely. The laugh seemed to me like "I've found my true heir!"
And finally, Lelouch. I understand it was an accident, except he was listing ideas he was probably considering at some point(free Suzaku, attack me, ect). And the lie at the end. Not only does he directly and irrevocably tarnish her reputation and force her death with his mistake, he then takes it further to use her as an excuse for what happened to the BK and spits on everything she stood for as a person, tears or not. THAT is unforgivable. He will die a horrid death, hopefully with his bastard father. Maybe he repents like Suzaku, but I can't describe where he could even begin.
@Blue
Yes, that spoiler is from Fake Oukouchi plus Asuka.
Lelouch killing her is certainly an act of mercy, but it wouldn't seem that way in the eyes of the witness - Kururugi Suzaku. Which, according to a magazine, will turn him into a revenger. Again I hope that the spoiler about
@Soudan
He doesn't use it as an excuse for the Black Knights to act, he has to act to contain the carnage. Ordering the Black Knights into action is the only option left to him at that point in time, he tried canceling the Geass, he tried physically stopping Euphemia, getting the Britannian troops to stop her is a no go regardless of what he does. He uses the "Kill all Japanese" as an example of what he could order her to do because that is so completely against her character it seems impossible to make her do it, the thought of actually using that as a command probably never even crossed his mind.
By ordering the Black Knights into action he had to act the part of Zero the savior, if he assumed responsibility for this to them they wouldn't listen to him and he sorely needs them to listen to him to salvage the situation. He has to look spotless to the Japanese otherwise all hope would be completely lost, that even without the Geassed Euphemia, the massive onslaught of terrorism that is sure to follow this incident will continue until Britannia is kicked out or all the Japanese are killed. Sure the Black Knight might be able to continue working for a while without him, but they would collapse on themselves eventually because they would have lost their head, the single man that held them together as a single group.
He has only one other path open to him and that is to kill Euphemia and then himself and taking all responsibility for what happened. Why is that a no go even if he wanted to? Even if he didn't care about Nunnally or Revenge? Because by Geassing Euphemia, even if it was an accident, he is now completely and totally responsible for the survival of the Japanese people. They suddenly became his people, his subjects, he realizes this when he meets the old woman who uses her dying moments to speak with the only one whose ever really stood up for them and is still doing so, at least to their eyes. If he was just acting in the name of his own ambition again he would have returned to the Gawain immediatly instead of running into the stadium. When he returns to the Gawain he has to act in the name of the Japanese people, and do what's best for them.
@LunaticChaos:
I understand he needed the BK to act, and that he is required to stop Euphemia now. But he didn't need to say "She has betrayed the Japanese" all he needed to say was "something went wrong, and we now need to find and contain Euphemia." Looking as the savior is the byproduct of soley blaming Euphemia, and that is probably why he did it, after hearing from the dying old woman. The black knights trust him enough to listen to the truth and back him up, it wasn't a necessity.
And when he does find and kill her, has he really taken responsibility? After all, her reputation was part of his responsibility, and if he was as intelligent as stated previously, then he could have stated her situation as insanity, which would have some truth. But that chance is already gone, as Lelouch "made the most" of the situation, as he told C.C.. That is what I find unforgivable.
I just hope Suzaku gets at least one punch in. He deserves that much.
Well, so much for my "Euphie is teh 3vil mastermind lollol" theory. Whether or not she's not long for this show (at this point, I don't need spoilers or a Magic 8 Ball to tell me signs point to "Yes") this event pretty much confirms her innate goody-two-shoes-edness. This is obviously being done to elicit a mass of emo angst from Our Hero, to drive him throughout the rest of the series(es), and if she turns out having been evil, that will be replaced by a healthy serving of "meh," and "meh" drives no one.
As for the prospect of Lulu having to leave school, if the writers can sleight-of-ass a way for Karen to come back, there's all kinds of ways to rationalize Lulu not having to stay away. He can always put on a patch and say he got shot trying to save Elevens. Or better yet, he can start always wearing a half-mask, and when people ask why he never removes it say it's an adhesive-aided Zechs Merquise cosplay gone wrong. Cross-promotion is good!
I think Soudan and LunaticChaos points are EXACTLY the central theme of code geass: which is more important, the process or the result. If you believe the process is more important, then lelouch should tell the world that he has geass ability, tell them it is all his fault and kill himself in front of everyone. HOWEVER, even that might not stop the killing of japanese and the black knights will certainly perish by the hand of Britainnia.
If you believe the results is more important, then you probably do everything what Lelouch actually do and try to create an independent country for the japanese.
@Soudan
"Something went wrong" if he said that to the Black Knights that would have brought up questions, questions that would have trapped him into revealing the Geass given he'd have to find a way to not only fool the normal members of the Black Knights but incredibly intelligent people like Toudou, Diethart, and Raksharta. That would have been like playing chess against three different people at once on the same board. After he gets trapped by those questions he would then lose their trust, they'd put two and two together and think "Wait a second, maybe we aren't following him by choice. Rather he used that power on us."
By saying "Euphemia has betrayed us" he eliminates all questions because its something the Black Knights can accept because that's exactly what they are seeing.
And he's always looked like the Savior to the Japanese, the results of this situation only solidify that image and make it nationwide.
He can always say she went insane afterwards, but then that would leave a bad aftertaste in the Black Knights mouths. If he stated she just went insane to the Black Knights when issuing orders they would try and capture her instead of kill her which would very likely end in quite a few of their deaths. Stating she has betrated is the only way he can go because by the looks of the preview, he's going straight into conquering Tokyo and maybe Japan after the current situation is taken care of, he needs the Black Knights at their best and without doubts of their actions.
As for saying "I'm making the best of the situation." It's important who he says that to, he says it to C.C. Although there are less secrets between the two, there are still secrets. Lelouch can't look weak to her, he cannot show weakness to her, C.C. would dive right in and start undermining his decision if he did so, maybe not out of malice or spite but just because that's the kind of person she is. Lelouch is in an incredibly precarious position right now, looking at his face he wanted to have a break down at the stadium, but he can't otherwise all's lost. He needs C.C.'s confidence in his abilities, he needs the Black Knights confidence in his abilities, and he needs to do one of the most difficult things he's ever had to do in his life.
What Lelouch is saying is by far not always what he means, we've seen that throughout the entire series, that the only time we can trust what he's saying is when he's alone or he's thinking to himself. If we want to know what he really wants to say or do you just have to look at his face.
@cosmo
Right now Lelouch's actions are beyond results or process. He has no choice of choosing results or the right process because he either continues the path he's on or allow genocide to happen. This situation is more of a question of "Which is the lesser of the two evils."
Though quite frankly I am a results oriented person so I'm naturally on Lelouch's side in this story. Though personally I think the producers hype up the guy's intelligence a bit too much because I know he's nowhere near as smart as they make him out to be considering the number of mistakes he's made and could take a fall for at any moment.
Agree completley with Soudan.
Lelouch has arleady begun to use this situation to his advantage by pinning the blame solely on Euphemia. In the end the others might not know of the real cause of the massacre and Lelouch will come out looking like a hero to the Japanese.
Honestly, I'll be rather pissed if the end of this series or the second season tries to make him out to be some sort of hero because he's been anything but one.
There is no way Suzaku is Marianne's killer. I think the vision means that C.C. is possibly a clone of Marianne with some special powers. That is why Lelouch didn't need to do blood tests in ep.11 -- he knows she's his mother.
....Hmmm, I wonder, everybody whose still reading this discussion.
I'd like to hear what you would do differently if you were in Lelouch's shoes that would salvage this situation. Or tell me exactly how Lelouch's plan will fail.
And I will be showing exactly where these plans will fail so do think about it.
gahh. i must say that im quite upset with lelouch. that was the worst mistake in the whole series. well, that also showed what he would/might have done to euphie if he/nunally didnt lyk euphie and that he does really has emotions + cares. sighs* all geass's fault. euphie really doesnt deserved this ending. poor cornelia, she'll have to suffer too cause of whatever fate that awaits euphie, probably.
guess the race now is whether it'll be britannia or the black knights who find her first. if the black kinghts find her, they'll kill her for sure. if britannnia finds her, will she turn back a bit more okay, not entirely sane. but at least with her eyes not red-rimmed? what will they do to her? i dont think that they'll be prosecuting her her for genocide or something but you wont have cornelia praising her doing a terrific job. or will euphie start going out to create her own personal unit to crush the japanese and terreorists?
wonder how sunrise's gonna make lelouch redeem himself to the eyes of the viewers now.
I don't see anything wrong with Lelouch using this situation to his advantage since the tradegy already happened. The only other way Lelouch can go is like I said, announcing to the world about the power of geass (and possibly demonstrating it publicly), tell the world that he geassed Euphemia so that she did such horrible things, and kill himself to atone his sins. In that case, the lives of Japanese will be leave entirely upon Cornalia/ Schenizer to see if they believe him, but the lives of the black knights and Nanally are dead for sure.
Anywhere in between is simply half-hearted, not serving any purposes and allow both black knights and the Japanese to be killed
>>>>>The laugh seemed to me like "I've found my true heir!"
And the Emperor would be stupid enough to think that Lelouch will say "Yes, Your Highness. I will succeed you" ^_^;
I agree that for Zero to admit his sin will do nobody good. It will save Euphemia's reputation but then what? All Japanese will lose hope, that's bad enough for themselves, and what's more... they will also condemn Zero and will hunt him down. It will not be difficult to finally know who he actually is.. "Oh, Britannian prince and princess? Kill them!" Japan sulks even more to Britannia. Lelouch and Nunnally flee into some forest and never come out again for the rest of their lives. But at least Princess Euphemia is a good person, she loves, she cares for Japanese blah blah. Hmm....does that really worth it?
BTW... (just saw a message saying Lulu could have said Euphemia went insane) Well, what's the difference? To me, a crazy Britannian princess doesn't sound any better than a betrayal princess.
Trust me, the person who is in most pain for having to kill Euphemia and crush her reputation is Lelouch himself. It needs the incredible mental strength to handle all this and live on in lies as he has no right to turn back anymore. I'm so impressed with the storywriter's skill here.
@LunaticChaos:
I think you are underestimating the BK's trust in Lelouch, Diethard and Toudou included. First of all, Both have seen him do the impossible already, and they know what type of situations happen around him. Diethard would have a ball with the truth(which he already suspects, I'm sure), but Toudou would definitely have a problem with it if he found indirectly. Toudou is one of those "honor or bust" kind of guys, and he wouldn't follow Zero if he knows how much he was willing to hide or warp, I think. Same with Ougi; plenty of the Knights are now fighting for what they hate most, unbeknownst to them. Larkshata...we really don't know much about her. I think she, like Lloyd, would just be happy to continue her experiments.
Insanity is a plenty good excuse to be careful around Euphemia; Would you lower your guard around a psychopath? I wouldn't, and I doubt the Black Knights would. The only reason Lelouch decided what he did, like I have said before, is because he could profit MORE from it. "Japan can't have two saviors." So by spitting on her name, one that by every right should be miles away from that of Zero, he establishes his own moral high ground to the public and to his followers. What a great guy, huh?
And finally, CC. Appear strong to her? SInce when? (Almost, I'm not cuting hairs here)Everything he has said in the past to her has been outright truth, probably because even he needs one person through which to communicate his ideas and hopes. Most of his emotional weakness has been shown before her, more so than to any other character. She might scoff at him sometimes, but she knows him well enough now, as should we all. This self-benefit fits his character extremly well, this is just the first time he's used it through a close AND innocent person.
Hmm, I wonder how he will explain all this to Nunnaly. He said he would never lie to her...
@cosmo:
You know, I agree with Suzaku in the "results though corrupt methods are meaningless." However, I can stomach Lelouch's methods, but only so far. Zero is a leader. Working under such a person, as a pawn for a false ideal, is one of the most depressing nightmares a soldier can dream about. Anyone who works through such deception can no longer be called just, or even a decent person. Some of the japanese had doubts about the SAR because it was given to them; what would they feel about their symbol of resistance ending up as nothing more than a sefish and amoralistic brat who has a vendetta?
In the end, you put Lelouch's dreams above all who follow him, and above all who wish for peace as well if you support him. Does that mean he can't bring results? Why yes, it does, because nothing will change if Lelouch kills his father and ascends the throne as the person he is. I can see it now:
Lelouch's son: My mother was killed!
Emperor Lelouch: What of it?
ect.
@avocado sushi
I see a difference between insanity and betrayal. After all, one is TRUE. He could clarify later that she had good intentions at the start. And about Lelouch becoming heir, you think he will just walk away after killing the Emperor? Doesn't seem like him to me.
@avocado sushi
YES! About bloody time someone was on my side in this argument.
@Cosmo
If Lelouch reveals everything the situation would be much worse. The Japanese would see that as it was all just another Britannia plot to further enslave them. Terrorism greatly increases and countless Japanese lives are lost. Why? Because he would also have to reveal himself as Lelouch Vi Britannia.
@Soudan
I am hardly underestimating it. The revelation that he's not even an adult, that he can control their actions regardless of their will, the fact he's committed siblicide once and is planning on doing it again, and that he's the son of their most hated enemy all point to one thing. They will not accept him as their leader, they'd suspect him of being involved with the Emperor, they'd expect him to really trying to derail all terrorism in Japan by giving them hope and then taking it away. The only way he can reveal anything to them and maintain a minimal level of trust is after Japan has been freed. All it takes is a little doubt to destroy an army. Raksharta and Diethart might follow Lelouch regardless of the circumstances, but they would still assist in questioning what happened. Toudou definently wouldn't follow if he knew the truth behind Zero, nor would the majority of the Black Knights.
Once again, it's only to keep the Black Knight's confidence in him. You don't treat insane people the same way you do sane people. You pity insane people, that pity could be all it takes for a the moments hesitation it takes for them to get killed. A Black Knight meets Euphemia and decides to capture her instead of kill her, Euphemia would see the Black Knight and shoot to kill immediatly.
Furthermore, if he makes himself look bad in any way Japan suddenly has no saviors, so he has to establish a moral high ground otherwise there's no shining figure for the Black Knights to follow. Right now Zero represents the ideal, the moment he no longer represents the ideal he loses a great deal of influence. The ability to represent the ideal is why the presence of Zero is so strong.
He's careful with what he says around her, we've seen what's happened when C.C. has seen weakness in Lelouch. Lelouch is being careful about what he's saying because he doesn't want her to say anything that will make him question his actions. He's been pretty honest with C.C. but not completely, C.C. isn't someone he can completely open up to because she will judge him and criticize his actions. That makes C.C. a great partner but a poor confidant. He doesn't have anybody he can completely open up to at this moment, which will probably lead to some serious personality problems in the future unless he finds someone he can completely trust.
Well he's never actually lied to Nunnally. He's just ommitted a lot of things. Nunnally has never asked Lelouch "Are you Zero?" or "Are you going to kill Euphemia?" or anything of the sort. Splitting hairs yes, but he still hasn't actually lied.
"That idiot has finally done it!"
Did the emperor really say this line, because if he did I am positive he meant Lelouch.
I have in mind that he of all people knows and understands the most about the power of Geass. And are we even sure that Marianne was murdered because of her commoner status or could it have something to do with CC and the power of Geass. After all even Lelouch and everyone else assumes his mother was murdered due to jealousy, what if she wasn't murdered but instead 'killed off' to prevent something.
@ wry
You'd think Lulu would have more sense to try out a simple command on her like... or heck, even "sm3x with me" and not something like "kill the Japanese",
DAMMIT LELOUCH YOU SHOULD HAVE. D:
But that episode, I'm stuck between MYGOD WONDERFUL BRILLANT LOVELOVE and omg what is going to happen to Euphemia?! She's my favourite character and I don't want her to die, but then I can't see her "living" after this. DDDD:
OMFG I could almost believe Tomino was in there when they produced this epi!
I really hope that there was a reason for Lelouch's Geass evolving when it did. Otherwise it's less of a tragic element and more of a kick that the authors threw in to make CG evil >_>
the only question i have about this episode is if like sence his geass has evolved can he give an order to a person more then once?
iam sorry if my spelling is wrong i suck at english =(
that was awesome i really was shoked that the writers chose this massacre as the point of a critical turning to the story i wonder what's gonna happen next and what would be the royal familly's reaction about Euphi and what the hell the king was laughing at... i like things when they get mysteriousss :)
@soudan
Lelouch's objective is always 1) find his mother's killer 2) defeat Britainnia/ establish a safe place for Nanally. Establishing independent Japan is never his objective and rather a reward for the BK that follow him. If that is known by the BK then whole BK organization will crumble immediately.
Actually, it is Lelouch who put his dream above all who follow him and I don't see much problem with that. I am pretty sure Lelouch will agree of killing all the BK if someone agree to tell him his mother's killer/ kill the killer for him and destroy Britainnia, thus establishing a safe place for Nanally. I don't see anything wrong of planning for yourself over other people (well, maybe not Kallen since she is cute and loyal but I have no problem killing Ougi/ Tamaki lol)
@LunaticChaos
considering about the Japanese is considering the results. The "process" is Lelouch did something wrong and he should atone his sin and let innocent people (Euphemia) off the hook. (similar to les miserable when Jean Valjean admits his identity in front of Javert. I am sure Jean Valjean can help more people if he remains as the mayor of the town but he believes it is a wrong thing to do)
So did Lelouch decision save the most people? Definitely. Is that the most ethnical thing to do? it is up to debate.
I think Lelouch's geass evolving simply he uses that too much. I think that is the most logical deduction at this point (maybe the director will throw something to surprise us EVEN more but well.......)
This is disturbing, very disturbing...
I think this is the first time I saw Lelouch's tears as Zero.
And I though I heard that every use of Geass makes it stronger, possiblely to the point that it can go berserk, like Mao's and Zero's now?
Novan, your thoery does make sense to me...
hey Novan i really agree wih you and i would add that it s untill now mystirious how Britania got this strong and concured the third of the world and i think that the geass power has something to do with it and even the people (women) we saw that looked like CC i think they are related to the king wether by helping him or by being tools in his hand and so far we did not see the real power of Britania i strongly reject the idea that they got as strong as they are with the small power they employ against Zero. After all we only saw thiere power in Area 11 (though i prefer to say Nippon). About Lelouch's mother assacination it better has a good segnification in the whole story because it s one of his motives to do all we know so jealousy is not a conviniant reason for all this. I really think his majesty the king has something to do with this. Finally i m excited to see what's next ;)
I pretty much just jumped over the massive walls of text, but I'll just bring up one small point Garten.
(Ignored this if someone had mention it before... Somewhere)
'He actually saw a flash of Marianne in his vision. Does it mean that he was Marianne's killer?'
Two questions, how old are Lelouch and Suzuka? And how old was Lelouch when his mother died?
Got the hint? =D
Bleh, my bad - I meant 'Suzaku' ... ^^::
@cosmo
As I said, this was not about method and results, the only time when it's about method and results in when the two types of methods lead to the same result. This time it's about the lesser of two evils. If Lelouch used the right method it would lead to the evil of genocide, but it accomplishes the good of "doing the right thing." Using the method of using Euphemia leads to the lesser evil of ruining Euphemia's name, but leads to the good of saving an entire culture. Lelouch made the only choice he could do that would lead the world away from the greater evil.
And I seriously doubt he would kill off all the Black Knights if someone offered to make his two goals a reality just like that. He wouldn't trust them for one, two he'd be down to square one if they lied to him, and three he wants to do it himself.....and....heh you prefer results over methods too don't you?
(*Totally agrees but still prefers C.C.*)
Seriously, this is not the worse thing I have seen in my life.... note that I am living in another SAR....
o.0 when I was watching this ep I went nuts!, I mean seeing Euphie shooting Japanese like a madman!
I really didn't expect such turn of events....
Sorry LunaticChaos, but I'm going to pile some more on you. A lot of this situation came about b/c of Lelouch's arrogance. He thought he was strong enough to conquer his Geass. He may have understood how his Geass worked, but he never understood what his Geass was. But rather than be humbled by this event (he now realizes that his Geass did not make him a mesiah), he's going to work past it and just add Euphie's body as another sacrifice among the thousands. He's quick to rationalize everything and thinks that as long as he achieves his goal all of the dead people will be worth it. I wonder if knows that he can no longer go back to his former life w/ Nunally now that he's killed so many people. It's not about a lesser of two evils, but about digging that hole further down to hell.
It's a human tendency where even though we have lost a lot of money in a venture, we'll throw more money into it even though it would be better just to stop because of a slim chance that we'll recoup our losses. It explains why loans are taken out to sustain businesses that are not succeeding, sending more troops into a certain country, and why Lelouch feels that a few more lives will get him to his personal goal. With the massacre happening around him, he has to justify the carnage with some kind of result and he knows a few more lives will be required.
Now I'm going to wait until next episode to see how Lelouch handles Euphie's death, but after the dust has settled and her body has gone cold, he's most likely going to rally the Japanese into an all-out war. At this point, it has gone beyond a lesser or two evils and onto opportunism. Once Euphie has been stopped, he could do the right thing and try to explain what happened, but that would not be advantageous and he will most likely let Euphie's reputation rot even though she was willing to sacrifice a lot to offer Lelouch and Nunally a measure of peace.
But now onto something else: A lot of summaries have Dalton fainting before he can shoot Zero. That doesn't seem right to me b/c we have the scene where Lelouch is in Gawain and then Dalton collapses. This means that some time has passed and Lelouch saw an opportunity w/ one of Cornelia's confidants in front of him just barely conscious. I can see him either explaining everything to Dalton so that Cornelia can have some peace-of-mind (not likely), or he could have Geassed Dalton and have him wait as a sleeper until needed (likely). If Lelouch chooses the first option, then there is a chance for redemption. If it's the second option, then Lelouch is going straight to hell.
@jounin
That all you got?
Lelouch was willing to work with Euphemia; he was prepared to give up his revenge because it would ensure Nunnally's happiness. (Oh gee, I believe I stated he'd give up the revenge thing in one of the other episode summaries if it meant ensuring the peaceful world for Nunnally thing)
If he was being an opportunist he would have immediately started the counter offensive when his Geass acted up instead of trying to stop Euphemia and then going into the stadium. Who knows what he thought he could do by going into the stadium away from the Gawain, maybe he thought he could pull someone out of the carnage or organize a retreat for them.
Once again, if he does not act, Genocide occurs, citizens who aren't willing to die for what they believe in and want to surrender. What's the cost of acting? Killing Britannian solders and maybe losing some of his own (and his solders and Britannian solders are both ready to die for their cause). He isn't justifying anything; he's trying to stop a very bad situation from occurring.
Read Othello, and try and tell me there aren't surprising similarities to this situation. That's exactly what's happened, that exact same situation, a trusted power betraying its master.
Now it's my turn to get judgemental.
The only reason you people are reacting so much to this situation is because you all liked Euphemia and are saying she really didn't deserve it. Guess what? Nobody else Lelouch has geassed deserved it either. Jeremiah, Villette, Sayako, Karen, the Special Forces squad, Bartley, Shirley, the countless nameless solders, the terrorists, none of them deserved it either. But I don't see anybody here trying to say Lelouch did the wrong thing and is going to hell when he used the power on purpose each of those times. In fact Jeremiah became a joke because of it that the same people who are outraged by the accident that happened to Euphemia laugh about. Geass is a power that no matter how you use it is the wrong method. The intent is far more important than the result, evil intent is far worse than accidently doing something evil. You people who are so outraged by this accidental use of Geass should have been outraged at episode 1, otherwise your "morals" have no standing in this argument so leave them at the door.
i'm just surprised that euphemia was able to resist the command even for a few seconds. the other geassed people from the past didn't show any resistance.
@Eden
That's probably a clue that Geass isn't as absolute as we think it is. That command was so contradictory to Euphemia's character that the power probably had to rewrite a lot to make her do it. Afterall every command he's given so far has been completely within the realm of "would they actually do it?" till that point.
@ LunaticChaos:
Lol, I always disliked Lelouch's methods, from the beginning. The difference with Euphemia, or to be more precise the shock of it, was how damn good of a person she was, the overall consequence, and exactly what Lelouch made her do. Orange, Kallen, Suzaku, all of those were people who really lost little overall to the Geass. Euphemia (and Shirley to a lesser extent) lost who she was. I even disliked his use of the soldiers, he could have told them to walk away or something. And with the Geassing of everyone except maybe Clovis and definately Euphemia, Lelouch caused little to no death. He says he will take the burden, but that is an outright lie; he just makes things easier for himself while remedying half of the situation. The burden includes much more than just stopping the death, it includes taking responsibility for it. He's probably killed over half a million people through his actions or carelessness as of now, mostly civilians, people who never wanted to fight. Is that worth Nunnaly's happiness? I doubt she would think so.
We have seen some of the ends to Lelouch's means, and they aren't pretty, unless you want to speak for survival of the fittest. Even the emperor loves what he is doing now.
I bet the emperor knows who zero is and is happy since he will have a heir who would do anything for
results.He does not know this was an accident to him
right now lulu is the cold hearted leader worthy of th throne.And all stop crying about her death since a)she ain't dead yet
b)they already suprized us with her turning into terminator maybe in the next episode something is done to save her to suprize us even more.
I am supporting lunatic chaos about the moral part.Why do u feel sorry only for her the other people have families friends lovers not only her.
By the way i wont feel sad if she dies i feel sad because she was forced to kill
@lunaticChaos
My "killing all the black knights to achieve his goals" is more a general concept. In reality, like you said, The offerer had to prove that he can actually deliver his promises after Lelouch kills all the BK. My main point is, I don't see Lelouch really care about the well-beings of BK. Lelouch uses BK (for revenge)and BK uses Lelouch (mostly for Japan, Diethard for observing a new world, Lakshard for weapon development). If Lelouch fails to satisfy the need of BK they will dump Lelouch anyday (again,except Kallen)
About process vs result, in this situation, death of thousands of people is already a fact and thus I don't see any problems of using it to the greatest extent. The only thing that Lelouch can save by admitting fault is to save Euphemia's reputation. Is Euphemia's reputation worth the lives of BK and Nanally? At least I don't think so.
However, if Lelouch intentionally geass Euphemia to achieve the current state, then Lelouch is unforgivable as THAT he is taking the easy out (for BK) by sacrificing innocent people. So when Diethard is really happy about the result (Diethard: I don't know what you (zero) did, but that is a marvelous results). Obviously Diethard believe Zero did SOMETHING to make the massacre happened and Diethard is happy about that. Maybe Diethard is indispensable for the BK, but he is dangerous and need to keep an eye on (but that is Diethard's personality as indicated in almost all his actions)
@jounin
What is so wrong for being oppuntunistic? Remember in ep 13 Lelouch blows up sakuradite killing JLF/ Katase in the process? I know lots of people called Lelouch low/ cheap for doing so. However, Katase is a sitting duck in that situation (no one thinks Katase can fend off Cornalia's attack) and I don't see anything wrong being oppuntunistic and using the situation to your best advantage.
Maybe you will say this time Lelouch is at fault at the very beginning. I guess I am the type that prefer results over punishment. Did Lelouch makes a mistake for causing Euphemia go berserk? definitely. Will the situation reverse if Lelouch kill himself? I don't think so. (admitting fault in this situation IS killing himself, BK and Nanally as both Japanese and Britainnia will want to hunt them down and kill them all)
About Dalton, if Lelouch tells Dalton everything then I will definitely look down on Lelouch as again, it is not accomplishing anything other than making Cornalia feels good
I just realized this conflict (or the beginning of this conflict) sounds similar to how in certain versions of King Arthur, the final battle with Mordred's forces began.
In certain versions, Arthur and Mordred agreed to meet in a field midway between where their forces were camped, and sign a peace aggrement. The order of the day was NO one was to draw any weapons. However during the meeting, one of the knights in Arthur's camp drew his sword to kill a snake which was about to bite him. Seeing the flash of a weapon Mordred's forces launched an attack.
Here also, Lelouch and Euphiemia were about to have an agreement when due to something unexpected it turned to conflict.
WTF?! Are the writers smoking crack? Oh well, with the way things are going they're probably going to kill off at least one of the important characters...This really left me wondering what they plan to do for the 2nd season that's planned....
@Soudan
Well we already know Clovis was a patron of the arts, how do we know he didn't do o