If it was anybody else making the announcement, it would've sounded like a prelude to a horrible horrible massacre. Since it was Euphemia, well, I guess we all know what the road to hell is paved with...

With respect, I disagree that Lelouche's character development was defenestrated. Black Knights is something that he has worked on for 21 episodes, and he's already gone as far as to declare his own country. He's not going to let anything step in his way.

LOL @ Nina's screencap. She's truly one of the biggest xenophobic I've seen in anime.

Well, I didn't think the episode was THAT bad. The fact that Euphemia suddenly made that announcement speaks loudly of her lack of common sense/political training. But it's not like I wasn't expecting something like that from her eventually. I'm wondering how Lelouch is gonna react to everything though.

I really loved C.C.'s face when the giant pizza was ruined. The whole scene made me crack up!

I have to say that Lelouch's reaction at the end tracks with his behavior up until this point.

If I heard correctly, and I may not have, Euphemia proposed to give Japan back its name, identity, and recognize its citizens as equal to Brittanians. There might be a lot of angry Brittanians, but I can't see any Japanese people objecting to this.

This would make a lot of people happy, a lot of Black Knights members and potential members, and could be a particularly crushing blow to Lelouch's goals, including declaring an independent country in Tokyo.

Lelouch is going to do SOMETHING bad to Euphemia(which is a shame, especially as Euphie thought this would make Lelouch happy), and that tracks with his determination to accomplish his goals, no matter what.

By the way, has anyone noticed that the new troops under Cornelia's command are all wearing spiffy new visors, that look like they might protect them from Geass?

lol, yeah, that scene was so dramatic (they even panned out on her expression, lol) that it was totally hilarious.

there were a few things i don't get, though:
- Does llyod want Ashford power? or that blue prints?
- Why is maido-san following Diethard's orders?
- Suzaku can clean onions without crying?

and lawl, hell hath no fury, cept for Euphie. While she is not a badly developed character....she lacks discretion, ALOT of discretion XD. I kind of the liked the end, though, where Euphie and Lulu exchanged monologues, one is naive, the other is desperate. sigh ~_~ I guess little sister is going to meet his big brother soon.

@ Blue
wow, totally didn't notice that fact, I just thought they were bad spinoffs with weird masks =o but if that's the case, that would mean that Schneizel/Britannia knows who exactly has which particular power, since geass manifests differently in different people. Won't it?

@Karsu
Personally I think that they're trying to rip off the Black Knights and look cool bu that's just me. Euphemia is probably going to be ripped and burned for her announcment. But I don't get it how is the announcement of an independent state for the japanese going to destroy the Black Knights? Is it because now that they have a country they don't need to continue? I guess Lelouch won't be able to push them into defeating Britannia since now they have a nice shiny state thanks to Britannia, cause you don't bite the hand that feeds you.

Everyman:

"But I don't get it how is the announcement of an independent state for the japanese going to destroy the Black Knights?"

It's because the Black Knights are composed entirely of Japanese people (with the exception of 3). "Allies of Justice" or whatever you want to call them, most of their recruits most likely joined because of the oppression from Brittania.

With Euphie's announcement, it's like they got what they really wanted. Their lives and status back. So they'd have much less reason to fight.

@Blue

Those are Schneziel's Knight Group. I did hear of a spoiler a while ago saying that

But I have no idea if that's true or not.

I don't think Lelouch was terribly OOC. In light of 19, we know that he cares for Euphemia more than his other siblings (she seems to be his other 'favourite sister', if Nanaly's 21 convo is any judge) but observing his trains of thought, aside from Nanaly...he doesn't seem to see her as someone to be saved at all costs. Only when it's practical (which it mostly is). So he likes her and trusts her, but that only extends so far. He doesn't seem to have had such a bad relationship with Clovis, either.

Lelouch's also a very proud person with attachment issues. I think it's more like this : He's been wanting to do something for almost half his life but couldn't, and he finally gets the chance to do it, he puts everything he has into it, going through ALL THAT, went to the point of no return, and see it crumble down in front of him by a princess who knows nothing and understands nothing. If he's doing this out of ideal, it'd be OOC...but he's doing this for himself, and we know the reaction he gets when something breaks his best-laid plans. He's already a bitter man---messed up and not noble by any means and thinks himself already with too many things taken away. Euphie's trying to give him back his freedom, but that's not how he sees it---he's finally created something and it's whisked away just when it's beginning to worth something. He takes things too personally, is self-centered, always blames everyone other than himself. Euphie also doesn't try to understand him.

They're a very messed up family.

Equivalent_T:

"he's finally created something and it's whisked away just when it's beginning to worth something. He takes things too personally, is self-centered, always blames everyone other than himself."

Well, you have to consider that he's been dreaming of/working towards revenge for a large portion of his life. Euphie's plan would set him back years, at the very least. He can't help but take it personally. It's not so much attachment issues, because Euphie's plan goes against his desires. This isn't like a mother who doesn't want to let her child go to school where he can make friends and grow up, this is more like a mother who doesn't want her ex-husband to gain sole custody. ANYONE would be pissed to have their dreams undermined so swiftly and easily.

He doesn't particularly care about Japan, or the oppression, but they made for good resources in his plans to take down the empire. If you take those away, then he's left with very little to work with.

To be fair, he HAS had a lot taken from him. His status, his mother was killed, he was exiled, his sister is handicapped and blind, his father essentially sentenced him to death, etc. He has quite a lot that to feel bitter about.

Other points of interest:

Even though Suzaku still deal with some bullying, apparently he's become fairly accepted. People dressing up as Lancelot, getting enthusiastic applause, etc.

Though we criticize Euphie for not thinking about the consequences, maybe she did. It looks like she ran it by Schnisel, who told her it was a "wonderful idea." Whether or not she can imagine the consequences on her own, the point is that she asked for counsel from her very smart brother, whose judgment she trusts.

Which leads to another thought: perhaps this is a test set up by Schisel and the emperor to test Lelouch and how he reacts.

hoee. ive watched the raw! too badd that i cant understand japanense, but i think i know enough spoilers already~

seriously wonder what the hell was she thinking when she happily blabbered away with her announcement. i think lelouch appreciates her good intentions to a certain extent. but she's seriously messing up things for him? from the looks of it, seems that lelouch is kinda angry with euphie. i mean, i personally would too, if somebody messes with my pain-stakingly planned rebellion..

@defade
ehh?! schneziel's knight group? i wont be surprised with that, seeing that how much political power he has.. but what's his knight group standing behind cornelia for??! or is he's lending cornelia his knight group for some annihilation? ahh, cant help wondering, sorry.

redberrie:

"seriously wonder what the hell was she thinking when she happily blabbered away with her announcement. i think lelouch appreciates her good intentions to a certain extent. but she's seriously messing up things for him?"

She was thinking that by giving the Japanese their names, status, and lives back, and by asking Zero to help build a new world, not only would Lelouch be happy, but things could go back to the way they were before Lelouch and Nunnally were exiled to Japan as hostages.

I'm guessing she was partly influenced by her time with Lelouch on the island (when they had a nice chat, and he treated her nicely), and when Lelouch stepped in to save Suzaku and repel the Chinese forces.

She doesn't know Lelouch's real goal, but only he and C.C. know them(as far as we can tell).

@Blue

OMG, I talked like I'm bashing him again, didn't I? Lelouch is actually my favourite character in a long long time, though I like him mainly because he's so messed up, does things he regrets, and still not turn into a ball of dark fiction hero. (I really, really hate typical dark fiction heroes--either too angsty or too much vigilante logic)

Yes, everyone would be pissed. Killing your second favourite sister would go a bit too far. Hmm...perhaps it would be better if I explain it like this : "For Euphie, this is a time of chances. She doesn't realize that for Lelouch, his chance already ended sometime ago. Therefore, he values 'the possibility he created' more than 'his current grief/lack of happiness'. Whereas she just wanted to make him happy which is something he's given up on sometime ago and doesn't really care about."

He's had a lot taken from him. But what he thinks he's had taken is greater than what actually was taken. (He implies this in 14) Everyone does that. It's a human flaw, and I actually do like it.

O_O *Just read the newest spoilers for the next episodes* Wow....

Well damn it, looks like I was wrong about Orange-kun, it looks like we're going to see a FullMetal Alchemist plot twist and have Mecha-Orange-kun. Damn it, Geass Orange would have been so damn cool too.

And Suzaku genuinely annoys me now, I know he's acting as Lelouch's foil character but he is officially too bloody nice.

Woot! Diethart is going to figure out Zero=Lelouch Lamperouge first. Now to see who figures out Lelouch Lamperouge=Lelouch Vie Britannia first.

@LunaticChaos:

Well technically plenty of people already know that Lelouch Lamperouge = Lelouch Vi Britannia =D

On another note, I've never hated Euphemia as much as I do now. That spontaneity may be a part of her characterization, but there's a point to where it is acceptable. The consequences of her action are the only reason that I don't want her to die right this second.

Geass got a bit off from its original course and this episode did put it back on track I suppose. I'm particularly interested in what Lelouch plans to do in this newly created lose-lose situation. XD

Huh?
This >>>I like Euphemia's idea and therefore I don't understand why Lelouch suddenly snaps.
And..........
this >>>>And I still can't believe how naive and wide-eyed Euphemia was when she was announcing her megaton.

No offense, but you seem to contradict yourself. You don't understand what's wrong with Euphie's idea yet you call her naive, eh? Lelouch's goals set for Black Knights are to "destroy Britannia" and "establish an independent country", not "live happily together" That is Suzaku's goal. I should think he's leaping with joy right now.

Anyway, here are my thoughts on what's wrong with her idea :
- The Special Zone is only a bait for Japanese. It will only make them feel grateful and become Britannia's slaves later.
- It's the false peace, a trap that lure Japanese to mock in one place. For whatever evil purpose I still have to find a reasonable one. (Annihilation?)
- The Special Zone will never be large enough to stuff all Japanese. Those who cannot get in will only get angry and that will create new conflict.
- It's not a stable happiness for Japanese. Britannia can just change its mind and turn against them whenever it wants.
- (This is for Lelouch only, as some people already pointed out) He fears the Black Knights will lose the will to fight and will not help him revenge Britannia. Besides, with Britannia still stands, he and Nunnally will have to hide themselves for the rest of their lives.

1 thing keeps bothering me, Lloyd knows who Marianne is, and yet he also heard the name 'Lelouch' from Suzaku, yet he isn't aware of who 'Lelouch' is.

On a side note, I wonder if this sort of anouncement would make Euphie into a target for assassins, possibly Britannians who are against her ideas and even more possibly the same 'faction' who were responsible for Marianne's assassination.

If the special zone is created, I am sure Euphie will stand by her ideals, HOWEVER I am also sure someone within the Britannian government would use it for his/her own purposes. Who knows, Euphie and her Zone could become a puppet for another.

Lelouch is right in being against such a zone, the chances of it working are very slim. Even if it happened, there are bound to be people within the royal family who will try to subvert Euphiemia and remove her already small chances for the throne. Too many crouching tigers and hidden dragons for Euphiemia to handle.

If on the other hand the Black Knights were able to create their own independent nation, there would be less chances of hidden threats since the Britannian forces would be openly hostile towards them. But they would still face many dangers.

Both notions would give hope to the Japanese, however 1 of them creates hidden threats while the other creates open threats. Open threats are easier to avoid.

@avocado sushi:

I didn't see Suzaku jumping for joy after that speech of her's though... Kinda makes you wonder if Suzaku is not as dense as he used to be... =P

As for your points:

The Special Zone being bait is something I agree with, although I feel for some reason that it's probably Schneizel pulling the strings on this scheme. Whether it's to wipe out the Black Knights or maybe the Japanese all together, there's just something not right about Schneizel approving this action and not notifying Cornelia, to say the least.

As for Lelouch, dissention in the Black Knights is definitely a problem. I find it interesting that before all of this happened, however, Tamaki (of all people) is alligning himself with Zero's goal, while Ougi is distancing himself from it.

Euphemia has all the right intentions, but none of the right political moves. She thinks she's helping the population of the Japanese, along with the people close to her that she wants to please. In the end though, everyone's suffering from what she meant as good.

The law of unintended consequences seem to plague anime as it does real life. XD

So Cecile now has seen Lelouch's face for perhaps the second or third time, chances are she will remember his face.

So who knows, perhaps sometime in the future Schneizel could possibly take her out on a 'date', and perhaps by chance he would show her paintings of the royal family, possibly ones painted by Clovis, and she would either recognize Lelouch's younger portrait or Schneizel could say '...and this here is a painting of the late Empress Marianne and her children, Lelouch and his sister...'.

@Novan:

Never thought about Lloyd's position in all this, but I'm getting the feeling now that he's more than he presents himself to be.

Concerning Euphemia, plenty of people will want to take her out I agree, myself included. =D

@random passerby:

How do you mean 'take her out'? Is it a metaphor, a pun or do you mean it litterally?
:D

@Novan:

Any and all of the above =D

@random passerby:

Unfortunately, or better fortunately, I don't ever fancy the idea of hitting, and even less with killing, girls.

Oh yeah and reading the pop-up text of each image, when I got to the image of Sayako 'The Spy Nurse', I was reminded of Mata Hari.

@Novan:

I once thought like that. Maybe I still do. But chivalry is currently dead to me. XD

Lelouch'll probably think of a way to deal with this without any direct harm befalling the Vice-Governor, or at least somethin' better than what I'd come up with. =P

Then again, that's probably why I'm more anxious to see the next episode than other times as of late. =D

'I feel like I was watching trainwreck waiting to happen and it was both fascinating and horrifying at the same time. To be honest, I like Euphemia's idea and therefore I don't understand why Lelouch suddenly snaps.'

Garten....you're joking, right? You got to be kidding me.

Let me explain why that can never be....

Euphemia's idea is a terrible idea because she is telling everyone to forget the invasion has ever happened. That is not going to work...ever. Country pride is so overwhelming that a fair agreement will never occur. Lelouche has every right to be mad ever since he was used as a tool by his own father (not to mention how he was banished). It may be his own personal vedetta against his father, but the Eleven will not stand to turn its cheek and forget the invasion has ever occured.

You think I'm wrong? Just look at the history of our society. A perfect example that fits this is the relationship between Korea and Japan. That's enough proof right there. As a Korean, I have seen so much hate from baby boomer koreans against the japanese that it sickens me. The World Series Baseball Classic that took place 2 years ago showed a match between Japan and S.Korea in the semi-final. There was so much hate that you can cut the tension cleanly with a knife.

The problem with Euphemia is that she is being a bit too naive without gathering all the facts. She is solely basing this announcement that it will make both her and Lelouche happy. Status quo can never be retrieved during a war....ever. Change is inevitable...or should I say, hitsuzen.

Novan:

Lelouch isn't opposed to the special zone because it might be misused. He's opposed to it because it creates the prospect that the Japanese people may no longer have to fight in order to to regain the quality of life they once had.

And while a limited special zone WOULD be bad, I see it as an experiment. If it works smoothly, and indicates that the Japanese and Brittanians can live together in peace and treat each other fairly, then the special zone can be expanded, eventually encompassing the entire nation. At any rate, I imagine that's what Euphemia is planning.

Kyouya:

Interesting analogy with Korea and Japan. However, you might also notice that as bad as that might be, a pop-singer in Korea isn't considered successful until they're successful in Japan. *shrugs* I have two Korean friends who are currently living in Japan with the support of their Korea-born, baby-boomer gen parents.

There's hatred, sure. Time dulls pain, and the generations in power change.

Blue,

Some are lenient. I'll admit that. I would say a religion and tolerance plays a role to that.

However....

No time in the world will dull the pain. Generations can change that....as in the new generation.

Despite that...

Majority of the babyboomers will stick to their hatred to the end because they believe if they don't, they would be betrayinig their country.

Simple as that.

Kyouya:

You might be right. However, within the Code Geass universe, you would be wrong. Or at least Lelouch thinks otherwise.

If Lelouch believed the same as you do, then Euphemia's announcement is a GOOD thing for him, because it would drive them to join the Black Knights.

However, Lelouch is truly pissed because as he says in the anime, this is a "lose-lose" situation for him. Either he does nothing and the Zone works, removing the reason for the Japanese to fight, or he takes an action against Brittania and destroys his image of "enemy of those who use power against the helpless."

Either way, he loses forces in the Black Knights.

This entire thing kind of reminds me of the old saying, "Freedom isn't something that's given to you, it's something you have to fight for" or something along those lines - in this case, the Japanese are merely being given back their statuses by the Britannians, almost out of nothing more than pity. And what can be given can just as easily be taken away - the Japanese have nothing by which they can protect or defend their freedom, so in essence they're still completely at the mercy of the Britannians. While at first the idea may seem good to the Japanese people, it'll be plagued with implementation problems, as everyone else has predicted. The principal problem is that, despite being given "equal status", the Britannians are the ones "giving" it. The mere fact that the Britannians can give, and thus take away, the Japanese people's status and freedom intrinsically means they aren't equal.

Perhaps not entirely relevant, but Euphie's idea also kind of reminds me of the old "separate but equal" policy that used to exist in regards to black and white racism in America. It was eventually ruled in Brown v. Board that inherently separate cannot be equal, which I think will be the problem with Euphie's idea. The mere idea that the Japanese have to go to some special area just to have equal rights with the Britannians means they don't have equal rights with them, and in essence it's almost a cruel farce.

Rift:

"While at first the idea may seem good to the Japanese people, it'll be plagued with implementation problems, as everyone else has predicted."

Yes, it absolutely would be plagued with implementation problems.

So here's the question: do we consider ourselves better tacticians than Lelouch?

If we do, then the best course of action for him would be to sit back, and wait for it all to fail, and regain whatever power he once had and then some.

Blue:

That might seem like the most prudent course of action, but is it really? The Black Knights have been a very active organization, and if Zero suddenly stops doing anything, the rest of the world, as well as his own subordinates, will start wondering what's going on. If, as everyone is guessing will happen, the special area begins to fail and atrocities begin to happen as a result, I don't think Zero will be able to simply sit back and do nothing.

In this situation, there really is no clear "best way" for Lelouch - I'd suggest publicly denouncing the Special Area plan rather harshly for its failings, and urging the Elevens not to be a part of it. In short, Zero needs a damn good speech, which I'd say isn't too hard for him considering he's basically a demagouge...

Rift:

Yes, the Black Knight have been active. But everytime, they've been more or less able to say they're on the side of those without power, or something like that. Since the Brittanian forces in Japan are generally keeping the Japanese down, any sort of skirmish can be claimed as "an action of justice."

With the governor general of Japan offering to create a special zone(which I can only see as phase 1: experimental stage, get people accustomed to the idea of living in peace and as "equals."), that's essentially announcing that the Brittanian governing power in Japan no longer wants to be the oppressor.

Thus, any sort of militant action would HAVE to be limited to cases where the Brittanian Army is clearly in the wrong, in order to maintain the Black Knight's image.

Which means that Lelouch's best course of action would be to make a speech, say that he does not believe that the zone would work but good luck, and sit back on the sidelines and wait for it to crumble on its own(as a number of people have speculated it would).

Of course, these aren't the eyes of someone who's going to do that.

http://www.designchronicle.com/memento/images/codegeass/21/codegeass2136.jpg

http://www.designchronicle.com/memento/images/codegeass/21/codegeass2136LG.jpg

Stage 1 Evil is ready, Lelouch is now officially ready to do exactly what the Britannian Emperor wants, to eliminate his competition to ensure his own success. The question is, how will he do it, use Geass or use the Black Knights, or possibly both.

...It's about time that we actually see Kaguya with a speaking part, and by the looks of things it might be Lelouch she'll be talking to.

On a side note, I think it's interesting how the series uses the nationalistic Nippon instead of Nihon. Both are correct, but I thought Nippon went out of fashion after WW2.

Euphemia is just a pawn in this whole game. Her idea maybe childish but she's gotten approval from Schnizel (and seemingly the Emperor as well) as we saw Schnizel communicating with the Emperor in one shot. Question is why would the two give permission? There's only ONE REASON ... because they know this is the only way to crush the black knight organization. By introducing a sudden change as abrupt as this one certainly disturb the unity of the black knight organization. Not only this, from the very start of approving Suzaku as Euphemia's knight, the plan has already started working.

Making Suzaku the knight gives the eleven hope.
Next, giving the eleven a false sense of equality makes some of them lose the motivation to fight to form their own country.
Zero is annoyed and makes mistakes because of the changes.
The Brittania army then move on to crush Zero. At least that's the plan on the Britannia side. However, something crucial would happen in episodes 24-25 that allowed Lelouche to successfully proceed his plan of creating a country at the expense of Lelouche losing himself and succumb 100% to the power of geass.

Then comes the new character, probably the "real hero" of the series who will become the most important character in the second season. He'll then crush the evil geass Lelouche and probably returning Lelouche to his original state in the end of the second series (whether or not that precede death).

My guess is that based on episode 6(?) where the Emperor seemed to murmur something as if talking to Clovis, I think he already knew more about Zero than Zero thought the Emperor knew. Whether he knew Zero = Lelouche is a mystery though. Clovis is a lot more intelligent than it appeared. He's weak at military but is smart in research and many other things and Clovis probably had gathered a lot of information about C.C.'s group.

i think lelouch doesn't like Euphemia's idea because this will cause elevens to like a princess and i think the japanese would leave the black order since they don't have anything more to fight for since euphemia created this special place where they regain their identity

No offense, but you seem to contradict yourself. You don't understand what's wrong with Euphie's idea yet you call her naive,

By naive, I'm referring to her announcing the idea without consulting anyone else (especially Zero) and expect them to accept it with happy face. I still think an area which gives its citizen equal right is still a good thing. Like I said, I don't mind the idea so much but the execution (without consulting anyone else) is the disaster.

Garten....you're joking, right? You got to be kidding me.

Unfortunately no. I really wasn't sure whether the idea is good or not. But I was leaning more towards 'equality sounds good'. At any rate, this is the reason why I'd never enter politic or rarely involved in such debate because my idea of what is good or not rarely jibes with what everyone else thinks is good.

'If Lelouch believed the same as you do, then Euphemia's announcement is a GOOD thing for him, because it would drive them to join the Black Knights.'

Blue,

There is a flaw to that arguement. Euphemia is so well known that she can actually pull it off with a little support from her allies. Her image is so clean that people (both Britannia and the Eleven) can be sucked into her belief. I'm not going to go further on what can happen because I can't predict the future.

As for Lelouche, he doesn't have the same belief as I mentioned because he is only focusing on one and only thing.........REVENGE

'However, Lelouch is truly pissed because as he says in the anime, this is a "lose-lose" situation for him.'

You know why this is a lose-lose situation for him?

It is still a personal vendetta against his father. The true purpose of this whole fight is to go up against his father. Members of the Black Knights are fighting against Britannia to get their country back.

The Black Knights are fighting for an entirely different reason than Lelouche. Their goal is the same but the reasons are different.

If Euphemia does succeed, the Black Knights can disband, which leaves Lelouche alone again. His dream of fighting back would be shattered.

If Euphemia does not succeed, it just brings more chaos to Lelouche's plan. He would have to deal with unnecessary distractions. For example, Zero claims he is fighting for Japan. He really can't defend all of the Eleven from Britannia if they choose to go full force against anyone who defies them. Currently, Area 11 is a mixed communism. If Britannia went full force against all the Elevens, then it would be pure communism. Therefore, if Euphemia fails, it will damage Zero's reputation and the Eleven would have no choice but to submit because Zero failed them.

It is definitely a lose-lose.

Blue, you sound like a pacifist to me, are you?

Though I do like the idea of having Peace and not having Wars, sometimes Wars and conflict are indeed necessary. Certain 'things' just cannot be given to you by another person. There are times when you must shed blood and sweat to earn something, such as now where the Japanese must fight and kill in order to regain their Freedom, Honor and Justice. This is once good example where a class of students on History and Moral Philosophy could hold a debate.

Regardless of whatever reason Lelouch/Zero may have for being against the idea of having such a Zone, the development of such a zone has more disadvantages then having the Black Knights declare their own sovereign nation. I agree with Kyouya on most points he made concerning why it is such a bad idea of Euphemia's. I would also like to add that similar bad blood exists between Chinese and Japanese too.

In fact Rift gives a better explanation why it is such a bad idea. Yes this zone will be created by the Brittanians, and what they give they can take away. It is only something that you 'fight' for and earned that cannot be taken away by someone else.

The 'Real Hero' of this series is still and will always be Lelouch, why else would it be called Lelouch of the Rebellion. A hero doesn't always have to be rightuous or just, sometimes heroes are 'evil' In Japanese history, Oda Nabunaga, Toyotomi Hideyoshi and Tokugawa are all considered to be 'heroes' and yet history has also recorded their many acts of un-heroism.

When the current generation of people living in this world talk about Peace, do they really understand the concept or do they want any form of peace as long as there are no more conflicts. Remember, Peace can be in the form of true Utopia or in the form of submission where we would rather live on our knees then fight for our freedoms. It sounds more to me that current generations no longer have the will to stand up for what they believe in and would rather settle for any form of peace or resolution, they don't even seem to care about what happens somewhere else to someone else as long as it doesn't interfere with their daily comfort.

By the way, Nanya, Clovis was killed in Episode 2/3 so why would the Emperor be talking to him in around episode 6? But I share your opinion that the Emperor knows about Lelouch.

By the way, you all realize that in just a decade or so it will be the 100th anniversary of World War I. The 100th anniversary since the entire world was first engulfed in the flames of war and where people of all ages, gender, race, religion and creed fought for what they each individually believed in, regardless of on which side they fought for. They all fought and died for each of their own individual 'Truths'.

...to be continued later...

@Novan
You know, that last paragraph has Warmonger painted all over it. Not that I disagree of course.
For why the emperor would be talking to Clovis in 6 when he died in 2/3, the Emperor himself states he was talking to Clovis if I remember correctly.
And Oda Nobunaga certainly did earn his title "Demon King" with how ruthless the guy was, however that's only a small portion of what made him great. He established the Japanese Tea Ceremony, he opened trade to Europe, he had mastery of macro and micro economics, he abolished monopolies, and his modernized Japan's military (at least what he controlled). So in truth saying Japanese heroes can be evil isn't technically correct, because they usually have a vast amount of redeeming qualities.

Kyouya:

I agree entirely about Lelouch's point of view towards the creation of the Zone. If you look at my earlier comments, you'll see that.

My point was that if Lelouch saw the consequences of the Zone the same way you did, then he would see the announcement as a good thing because (as you theorized) it would ultimately fail, lending more credence to him.

Incidentally, I don't think Lelouch will kill Euphie, since that would just further undermine his position. But if he Geassed her into doing something horrible....

Novan:

Something of a pacifist. I don't like fighting, I don't like wars. I do believe that there are wars worth fighting(WWI and II, worth it. Afghanistan, YES. Current Iraq war, NOT) and things worth killing for (Family). I just usually don't see them as the first choice. Honor/Justice/Pride/Morals are all subjective and vary in value from person to person, so while they're okay for some, they're insufficient for others.

True, the creation of a Zone might have more disadvantages to it than an independent nation, but in this FICTIONAL world, we should play by the FICTIONAL rules. In this case, Lelouch, who seems to have a decent grasp about the current situation and people's motivations, believes that this Zone will wreck the Black Knights.

If, as you said, the Zone was abused, it would only STRENGTHEN the knights in the long run.

Lelouch doesn't seem to believe this'll be the case, so....

Blue:

(i'm only responding this once coz i'm busy wif uni >

Blue:

(i'm only responding this once coz i'm busy wif uni)

The Zone's failure would help the BK in the long run, but that's if the Knights remain a coherent group in the long run. As it stands, the establishment of the Zone could splinter the BK, leech off current and potential recruits, and make the BK's as a whole a lot weaker in the short term. If the whole idea is some machination by Schnizel, then the one period of weakness may be all he needs to launch a strike against the Black Knights. If they're eliminated in the short run, there'll be nothing to benefit from the Zone's eventual failure.

Oblivion:

That's an interesting point. However, if Schisel could locate the Black Knights that easily, he could crush them right now. He doesn't need to wait for them to be weakened.

I don't know...there's a certain amount of Machiavellian logic to her plan. That's if you subscribe to the Roman method of conquest: either treat the conquered as as best you can and incorporate them as equal citizens, or burn the city down, disperse its inhabitants, and sow the fields with salt; anything in-between is half...effective and will eventually leave you with a rebellion.

So Euphie's just trying a variation on the nice approach. The Devil's in the details of course, as others have pointed out. Not to mention that the locals are already ticked off and rebelling.

@just another lurker
However the Romans didn't continue with that plan, I believe it was the Visigoths who sacked Rome after years of oppression and poor treatment. And this was after the Roman Empire had existed for a long time.
Britannia could be a modern day Roman Empire following that logic, that originally that had been their plan, kill or let them join.

from what I have seen Karen was dressed up as a nurikabe (google that up), not a grave, hehe

No, that's a gravestone, specifically a full casket gravestone (one that completely covers the ground above a coffin, she lays down waiting for someone to come by and then lifts up to scare them.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k205/ShinseiDrayga/vlcsnap-501333.png

it seems that euphie doesn't know how to think. now that she knows that lelouch is zero, didn't she think that this is going to ruin everything that lelouch has worked on so far?

btw this pic looked like athrun and lacus.

Euphie does her best Lacus impersonation and fails miserably. So the train wreck commences. Oh, and more incest. The only thing that can salvage this show now is the return of Orange-kun and more cheesetastic C.C. comedy.

Lulu cant kill euphie..even if he wants to....

i mean if he kills her, unless he makes it look like britanians did it..... he looses the support of the elevens.

it'll be interesting to see if he does kill her how he manages to make it look like the britanians did it....

@claudius

Could you please clarify/elaborate how this show is already a train wreck? I'm just wondering what your reasons are for this show. I'm not saying you're right/wrong though. Its just that the comparison with Euphie to Lacus isn't enough justification to conclude directly that this show is already a train wreck.

>>>>>By naive, I'm referring to her announcing the idea without consulting anyone else (especially Zero) and expect them to accept it with happy face.
---> I see. I guess she just trusts Schneizel too much. It's so sad Euphie misuderstands Lelouch's intention. She wants him to quit being Zero by taking care of his burden while Lelouch wants victory and victory only.

>>>>>Euphie does her best Lacus impersonation and fails miserably

Hmm.. can't decide who's better though
Lacus : Make 2 boys who fight each other for 30 episodes become allies and fight on the same side in 10 minutes.
Euphemia : Make her thought-to-be-dead brother's genius plan in 20 episodes collapse in 3 minutes.

>>>>>If Euphemia does succeed, the Black Knights can disband, which leaves Lelouche alone again. His dream of fighting back would be shattered.
>>>>>If Euphemia does not succeed, it just brings more chaos to Lelouche's plan. He would have to deal with unnecessary distractions.

I thought Lulu said something like "If i agree with Euphie, the Black Knights will disband(to be in the Zone). If I disagree with Euphie, the mass will go against me(for defying a 'wonderful' idea of equality by the loving princess)" Isn't this the complete true meaning in itself regarding the lose-lose situation? He doesn't know where to stand in this to keep both the Black Knights and the people's support. I quite don't understand why you regarded it as "If Euphie succeed and if not". Well, like.. succeeding or not is not the point, is it? Even though he knows it's going to fail, he just can't sit still and wait for the result anyway? Zero has to let the world knows what he thinks ...Do I only confuse myself?

Anyway, I also don't think Lulu will kill Euphie. He leaves Suzaku alive. It will be weird to kill her off, being a siscon Lulu is (and according to a recent spoiler, Euphie was his first love and vice versa. Heheh, really INCEST)

And I don't believe Schneizel is not aware of the possible disaster. He's such a faking I-am-nice bastard.

Now I really wish I didn't read spoilers for episodes 22 and 23. Things will really turn ugly.

I didn't get this the first time through, but...

When the Black Knights are discussing Zero in the beginning, they talk about refrain. Ougi looks shocked and thinks: "Refrain can bring the past.... Zero's true identity. But, if I have that information, what should I do?". As he's saying it, a picture of Villetta pops up. Is he contemplating giving Refrain to her in order to find out the truth?

He's always been a bit leery of Zero because (IMO) he doesn't know if he can trust his motives. He's probably the smartest of the BK in this affair; only he sees the gap between Zero's goals and the rest of the BK's goals. But it seems that giving her a drug to bring this info out would be against his character. Thoughts?

@avocado sushi

"I thought Lulu said something like "If i agree with Euphie, the Black Knights will disband(to be in the Zone). If I disagree with Euphie, the mass will go against me(for defying a 'wonderful' idea of equality by the loving princess)" Isn't this the complete true meaning in itself regarding the lose-lose situation? He doesn't know where to stand in this to keep both the Black Knights and the people's support. I quite don't understand why you regarded it as "If Euphie succeed and if not". Well, like.. succeeding or not is not the point, is it? Even though he knows it's going to fail, he just can't sit still and wait for the result anyway? Zero has to let the world knows what he thinks ...Do I only confuse myself?"

no, no. dont worry, i do think i understood you fully. and agree with you. right now, lelouch shouldnt be worrying bout whether silly little euphie's plan is going to work anot.. he still has time to think bout that later~ maybe he's angry that euphie's messed things up for him and made him freak out + 'dont know what the hell i should do'. one thing, lelouch seems to hate it when ppl make him lose his cool. XD btw, i agree that this seems to be a lose lose situation for me, but perhaps not lelouch, he'll be able to pull a bunny or something out of the hat, definately.. or else we might have to wave bye bye to this series already. ^^

somehow, when i think about it.. i think i'll give abit of sympathy to euphie. cause it's a 16-year-old's brain trying desperately to salvage the situation? frankly speaking, i wouldnt dare to try anything if i were her.. so she is kinda admirable and stoopid at the same time to at least give a shot. =] but then, she has schneziel's backing, which confirms my suspicion of him. he's not that innocent and brainless, duh. feel that euphie's just another [insert quite important chess piece here] on his gamble/plan. for the possible happenings, the ones from all the above comments will do. ^^

oh yes, diethard and maybe, sayoko are in the first few inthe queue now, to discover zero's identity!! wonder if diethard really meant it when he said that he's gonna to introduce her to zero. hees, lelouch's gonna have another nasty shock and freeaaakk out once againn! haha, sorry but it's really quite entertaining to see him freak out. XD

ahh! my longest comment. hope i didnt contradict myself anywhere. =Z

arghh! not againn. gahh. that was my comment. -___-"'| bangs against wall*

That was actually pretty goddamn awesome.

While this might be a little bit off-topic, what do you think would happen if Lelouch geassed somebody like this: "Obey me."

Would that be a perpetual geass such as Suzaku's "Survive." so that he would be able to give that person as many commands as he would like?

@Sos:
I think Ougi is somehow implying that refrain somehow is able to tap into the memory part of the brain, perhaps during its state of 'high' if he used it on Vellita, he can make her recall who Zero is.

Hmm weird, the Ashfor Academy school uniforms seem to have similar color schemes with the BK uniforms, and the height of the Gawain seems a little shorter in this episode then what we could estimate from seeing how high it was kneeling in front of the Lancelot.

@LunaticChaos
I am not a warmonger, however I do respect why people have fought for and why they have fought. If one cannot respect why people threw away their lives for the sake of what they believed in, it would be an insult in their memory.

1 thing I am just curious about:

What language would the Brittanians speak, and what would their accent be like.

Cos if Deithard overheard what Millay was saying, I am just wondering if somehow he could trace the place where Zero was located at that time. Because even if the Brittanians in 'Area 11' spoke japanese, or the Japanese spoke the Brittanina language fluently there are bound to be slight differences in the use of certain vocabulary between native speakers and learned speakers.

@Novan
Personally I think Diethart will figure it out by hearing Millay's voice in person, he'd have had ample oppurtunity seeing as how he was at Ashford Academy. Or better yet he could very well have been recording the conversation to use as reference or as part of future news reports, it'd certainly be in character for him to do something like that.
Didn't say you were, just said that last paragraph had warmonger painted on it, bout as much as some of Blue's posts have pacifist painted on it.

The insightful comments about this episode are more interesting than the episode itself.

For me, I guess I'm more of a Millay in that I distract myself with fluffy entertainment to divert my attention away from real political issues.

IT is very reasonable for Lulu to act that way at the end of 5 min. Remember, Lulu's objective is not to restore Japan (He is not Japanese or Eleven), his goal is to recounstruct "the whole world" by overcoming his father.

>It makes me wonder what on Earth was Schneizel thinking when he allowed Euphemia
>........
> ensure that people prefer Imperialism?

I think that Schneizel，the most duplicitily man in the story，must want to take advantage of Eupie's new policy to crash 黒の騎士団。Because the new policy will make many japanese give way。After the crash of 黒の騎士団，he must cancel this policy by certain resons。The consequence is，he win and lose nothing。

@YUUKYOU

I think he is:

1) Humoring Euphiemia, sorta like what older sibblings do for their younger ones.

2) In his head, as others have already stated, I think he is going to use this as an opportunity to:

a) Weaken the Black Knights
b) Root out any possible dissent
c) and try to make it out as if the Brittanians are the heros

@abelwu
I think Garten was disgusted with the Euphie Speach, probably bad memories of Gundam Seed Destiny or something. Never watched that one so I wouldn't know. Though Euphie's speech and expression made me physically ill, and she had a "soapbox" to go with the speech on top of it all.

On Schneizel
Major evil vibes just surround the guy, we're looking at the pro-Britannia fully evil Lelouch when we look at that guy. And by the looks of his personal knight group, and the fact he let Suzaku and Bartley off means he probably knows about Geass, probably not the rules that go along with it though. He's probably trying everything he can to force Lelouch into using his Geass in a bad way, hell he might even reveal that Lelouch/Zero has that power to try and sow discord amongst the Black Knights by the end of this season.

I completely understand Lelouch.

Up until this point, he's been focused on nothing, revenge. It is very easy to understand his motives. If you guys have experience with sibling or family disagreements, they're usually the deepest, most difficult issues to resolve, no matter what the circumstances. As for Euphie, her wish for an equal society is too idealistic. It sounds good on paper, but put into practice, it will not work because of the pre-established tensions between the Elevens and Britannians.

Just take a look at human society and you will understand.

Realizing that his plans were destroyed by a brief announcement by Euphemia, Lelouch would be nothing less than angry. I beg to differ that Lelouch's reaction was unnatural. I thought his reaction was VERY in-line with his character. The execution was great. No matter what Lelouch decides to do, the Black Knights are in trouble. All his work up until not has been rendered ineffective by Euphies announcement, which attempts to depolarize the conflict between Elevens and Britannians. For Lelouch to succeed, he needs the resentment of Elevens towards Britannians, not the opposite.

I wrote:

"Up until this point, he's been focused on nothing, revenge."

It should be Up until this point, he's been focused on nothing, *BUT* revenge.

Anyway, I am very pleased with the progression of the series. I was very skeptical about its plot value, but every single episode is stunningly well done. In fact, I was skeptical up to about episode 16-18. No matter what, the series never ceases to surprise me.

As for many unanswered questions, I don't know how they CAN answer it by 25 episodes or so. They SHOULD extend it to 30 or 40, but I'm not the one to decide. I hope there is a good resolution by the end.

@Kyoshiro
They've already confirmed season 2 actually. Though the form it'll take is unknown still.
And I've said this before and I'll probably say it again. Lelouch's two goals, revenge and a perfect world for Nunnally cannot under any circumstance be seperated from one another (why else would they feel the need to remind us of these two goals pretty much every episode?). Every action he's taken has been geared towards both goals, in fact his perfect world goal can be considered more important to him than his revenge goal, because knowing his character he'd give revenge up if continuing with it meant not being able to gain his perfect world. Right now the goals are one and the same to him, but in the future they might not be and then we'll probably see some very interesting character development from that conflict that's sure to come up.

@LunaticChaos:

If Garten is disgusted with Euphie similarity with Lacus in GSD, she should be joyful because we are now gonna see a realistic ending of the pink hair princess in a realistic setting...

meaning bad ending for Euphie....yay!

CC was soo funny when suzkau dropped the dough on a tree she was like

"My pizza..."

LOL

Lulu and Karen 4ever (Though it is most unlikely)

@abelwu
Doesn't change the fact we had to endure the speech. Though I suppose that'll make her death/fall be all the sweeter. Or her going evil be all the sweeter, I'm for either. Evil Pink Haired Princess for the win.

Good. I'm glad to hear there's a season two. I can't ever get enough of the Pizza Hut ads.

@Novan
>>1) Humoring Euphiemia, sorta like what older sibblings do for their younger ones.

Most of my views is similar to yours，by I disagree the first point。
In the throat competively Britannia royalty，there are good relationships between siblings who have the same mother at most。
I even doubt that if Cornelia love crackajack Euphie so much is a big inflation....

Here's my thoughts on the last five minutes...I thought that it was a good move by the creators to write that element in because it fits perfectly with the continuing deveopment of Schenizal's (sp) character. It is fairly obvious in the ep that Euphemia's just being used like a pawn by him...remember, Scheizal isn't just going to say, "hey, Euph, that's a great idea, we'll just liberate the dudes who are paying us huge money for no reason, and guess what, since I am such a nice guy, I'll just let this dude Zero live free and pardon all his crimes, especially when he said that he was going to wipe out all members of the Britaniann royalty."
From a commercial perspective, Sunrise's biggest obstacle now is to create threads to ensure enough episode count for another season, and if everything goes like how Zero wants to go, then under the current pace of the story, all the *baddies* would be wiped out by the end of the first season, and it would be hard to generate believable adversaries for Lelouch, and we all know what would happen to filler type series (that comment is meant to appeal to the logical part of your brain, and should be read without any knowledge of the anime industry, such as info about Naruto, DBZ, Bleach, etc...) So overall, I'd say they are getting back to their original element of politicizing and power struggle rather than Gundam Seed type plotline

There are a lot of common character archetypes for shows like this.

And the one that I HATE THE MOST, are the naive, overly-benevolent types like Euphie who don't understand the gravity of their own actions or try to initiate (or not initiate) something because they think everybody will appreciate it without thinking about the underlying complexity of the problem. These characters also have a tendency to want things to return to some previous state of ignorant bliss or are basically against change, which I also hate. There's one in every series, I swear.

hmms, somebody mentioned bout lelouch's goalS: revenge and creating a perfect world for nunally. but i think at the end of the day, nunally will be handing a box of needles to lelouch~ as when you come to think of it, nunally's perfect world can be said to be just as impossible as euphie's mt. fuji region..
ahh! this series is packedn full with ironies. ^^

Euphemia is a Tanabe, I think. She will probably not die.

I am grateful I am not at the point where I hate good-natured characters. Euphie can only be charged with caring and trusting too much. She asked for advice beforehand, knowing her own inexperience, and was even going to consult Lelouch and Suzaku before Shirley interrupted. If Schnitzel the genius was as trustworthy as she thought, the plan would have a great chance of sucess. Just as much as(or more than), say, a hostile takeover of Tokyo from the Black Knights. Lelouch is mainly angry because it rids the need for the Black Knights and puts him on the spot, not because it is an empty dream.

On another note, Euphemia is only as naive as the followers of Zero. After all, her plan sounds very familiar to Zero's public message. But then you would have to admit that Suzaku is uncommonly bright for recognizing Zero's words as false... and if you dislike Euphie, I doubt you would want that, lol.

Can anyone translate this article?:

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/2316/up180286tg6.jpg

Just want to know if what the poster says is true according to that article.

so many conflicts arise in this show tat u get to wonder how it can all be resolve because no matter the end a side has to lose...a compromise could not be reach at least in my opinion...its great stuff to watch because u can relate to things tat could of have happen but also very hard to chose sides xD

I think killing Euphie is the worst thing Zero could do at this point. In the end he'll just look worse. I reckon he'll use his geass powers to discredit her in some way. IMO making her kill an eleven. I dont think that the creators would make Zero question his motivations at this point in the series, as there where a few episodes addressing that already, to keep coming back to that point would really mess with the flow of the story.

@Conclave

What that article had said is true.

@kingmob

I would agree if I hadn't seen the spoilers. Lulu is not angry enough to kill his first love at the end of episode 21(and I'm serious about Lulu and Euphemia being each other's first love). But apparently this isn't the only thing that led to the death of Euphie. Something will happen in episode 22 that makes him completely explode, added with

I was already suspicious when Euphie had to announce the Japanese SAR region....

Can't wait to see the results.